whats your thoughts on creating hybrids to...

[Grant vg]

create new morphs??

I came across an american website of a breeder (s) who is/and has been crossing Red albinos with Sumatran blacks....red albinos with Marbled borneos, etc...

Obviously they are attempting (and succeeding) to bring over the albino gene into the other species...to one day make albino blacks, and albino marbles....

Am i the only one bothered by this?
I think this is an all time low for this species...as they are surely going to be new morphs of all 3 species popping up sooner then later on there own...rather then created by these ppl.
it just seems to me like these pathetic ppl are rushing way too fast into ruining the uniqueness of all 3 species...especially since i consider the potential of these species still in its infancy.

Is it greed?
Is it a lack of compatible adults?
Do people really get that bored so quickly these days, that they cant just appreciate each species respectfully..?


Say in 5 years...after the hybrid morphs have already creeped there way into the hobby...and someone finds the first TRUE black albino in the wild???
Will anyone care?

Sorry for the ramble, but as i said earlier, this is an all time low and these are just a few of the things that have been on my mind.


grant vg

[operation_sssss]

Good post/thread grant. I dont see how people can justify creating hybrids??? generally the only apparent motive behind it is money. I would certainly not want to see the same thing happen with bloods as what has happened with corns (hope that made sense ), through creating hybrids at some point along the line the species will lose their identity. I dont understand why people cannot leave things alone and what makes them think they have the moral right to do this.
That feels better lol,
Kind reguards Cheers Will

[SD-SNAKE]

I agree with you grant 100%. Money is the root of all evil. Humans have this feeling that they are god and can do as they want not thinking about the things at hand. What was the web site that you found this info on? All we can do is spread the word that hybrids are not right and hope people listen and follow. take care Nick

[Grant vg]

I saw it at www.thebloodline.net

i just DONt agree with it and i hope others dont as well.
Hopefully enough ppl dont show interest in it and dont buy them, but i REALLY doubt that will be the case.


Heres to all of you working to produce pure babies in the future!
Anyone who purposely creates hybrids gets blacklisted in my books...lol

Hope this doesn't sound like propaganda...it just REALLY bugs me.

gvg

[BoidKeeper]

Personally I'm against it. I'm afraid that someone some day will pair an albino colombian with a hog or some other form of insular boa to get the albino gene into the island boas.
Cheers,
Trevor

[marisa]

Yeah the thought of creating hybrids with boas/pythons simply to get a trait into them doesn't sit well with me now that I really think on it.

Basically you may have an albino hybrid boa, but you'll never have a pure albino boa such and such, if you get my meaning. So I don't see the point in creating them for that specific reason at all.

Marisa

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

When i read SD-SNAKE's post, i remembered about suzuki's 3 "sacred truths" as he calls them. About us thinking we are above nature, or god-like. Here is a link to what he said, i listened to the full recorded speech he gave a bit back, it was great, and true. I think it kind of relates to this in that we are pressing for results and are not appreciating the animals we have and we aren't looking to the future in terms of what we are doing to the world of herps. Its a good read and im sure you will be able to relate it to this topic.

http://jnevill.customer.netspace.net...zuki_quote.htm

I don't agree with it either grant. Thanks.

Chris

[Big_V]

I completely agree with you guys. And Chris that Suzuki article is so true...and thanks because im doing a paper on this type of thing in my politics class at McMaster. We cant play god for the sake of profit alone. People need to wake up and realise their are certain things that should not be messed with. Eventually the people who do this type of breeding are going to completely alter genetic traits and permanently damage the genetic make ups of these creatures forever. I say these people stop playing god for the sake of money and the self proclimation of being the one that came up with the new morphs. Its BS in my mind and completely unethical. If these people are trying to breed these animals for profit their likelyhood depends on that species so why do an injustice to a species on which you rely on. DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
Cheers,
Ryan

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yuck, I wouldn't do it.

"Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD".

[Stockwell]

I'm against it too. Selective breeding to bring out or intensify traits that are latent, is OK in my book, but everyone has to draw the line somewhere and with me anyway, its the crossing of different species, and in some cases different subspecies and locals of the same species.
I've been told there are guys starting to Breed Ball Pythons to Angolans just to make a new "Ball Python Morph" because they're running out of new things to put thousand dollar price tags on
I could never support that.

There's an ad I saw last night on Queensnake for Albino Pueblans.. The poor girl explains in the ad that she bought her snakes as Pueblans at a show.
She gives pictures too. The look like pueblans, but they threw some albino babies.
The problem is there are no albino Pueblan milks.
Here snakes had obviously been crossed with Ruthveni. So she bought snakes that were misrepresented, and now she inturn is selling the het and albino babies...
so what's next? This will be happening to all kinds of things..
Imagine buying nice Angolans and getting Ball python babies

[Scales Zoo]

It is the 75% diamond python crosses that get me. Like, sure, they are trying to make more diamond like babies, and some are really killer looking.

But, some day - those snakes will be indistinguishable to normal diamonds, and someone will get one unsuspecting, and start breeding diamonds - and so on and so forth, until, like the Indian Python, no one knows if a real pure one actually exists in captivity.

But, I have frankenstein genetics (from the old country don't cha know) - and have to admit that I like looking at pictures of crosses. In fact, I saw a weird python just the other day that made me consider buying one.

Ryan

[axwielding1]

I'm no expert, and only have 3 snakes. But, after reading this thread I felt obligated to tell this story...
I'm from NY, and around here, there is a ball python in every pet store. I saw a Ball in a store that looked VERY different from all the others I'd seen, and noticed it had some scarring on it's back, obviously from a mouse. I inquired about it, and was told it's a normal, run of the mill Ball python. I bought it for 29.95, and took it home. He's doing well, and has very sparse markings, with a beautiful blush tone...
There are so many "ghost" balls around, people don't even remember how beautiful a "plain" ball can be. What a shame!
Also, my Sumatran Blood, who is not fire engine red, is quite beautiful in her own rite.
We should remember to appreciate a species as they are, as well as the unique attributes of certain individuals.
This sensibility applies to people as well. Promoting attributes in a species is great...Within that species..No Frankensteins please!
ax.

[CHRISANDBOIDS14]

There actually are Agolan x Ball python crosses out! Its so ridiculous. N.E.R.D carries them, i know that. Its getting wrong, we come in here, and in that last 2 seconds of the year(if anyone read that suzuki article) we mix all of these snake types together and screw the world of herps up. Anyways. I hope we can prevent this and that people look more at the joy of keeping herps than the money and the so-called "fame" they get from breeding these "mutations" or morphs. Personally, i think they are like a 5 eyed fish with a blowhole and legs(just a metaphor i thought of, lol).

[JDouglas]

I totally agree with the original post and its not just pythons that are being hybridized. It seems that all types of reptiles are at risk of becoming the next hybrid. For example people ask me all the time if I will breed Hog Island Boas to one of my albinos or Hypos. I say no... leave that to people who only care about money.

[Grant vg]

The scary part is....

That there ARE people who only care about money working with every different type of herp.
I wouldn't be surprised if the hog x albino colombian hasn't already been put into effect along with numerous amounts of other projects.

infact, i was just reading about them in the hybrid forum and how supposedly theres pics of them over on queensnake. However, i couldn't find them.

I also came across a fellow expecting babies from his colombian x dumeril cross...

Geeze...
Perhaps its boredom, but i have a feeling it has a lot to do with the "little" ppl with no chance of competing with say the top python/boa breeders and that they are desperately seeking recognition in this hobby and they feel the only way they can achieve that is by creating something new.
this is only one of a few hypothesis i have been comming up with.

And for some reason its been bothering the he!! out of me lately.

Especially when i hear stories like Roy mentioned.

The defence that Pro-hybrids always use in this topic is always "well, if we represent them properly, there shouldn't be a problem." And although this puts my mind at ease somewhat....this doesn't seem to be the case.

I'd be FURIOUS if i bought a pair of snakes, bred them, and they threw out something i wasn't expecting (unless of course they were both het for Ivory blood and i got some little white bloods )