Do you have the ability to care for a 6+ feet Varanids…?

[Steeve B]

Pleas this thread is not to judge or condemn, I just want to know if you can care for a 6 feet monitor of any species.
The reason aim asking, my partner and I discussed the possibility to stop breeding a few species that we think are problematic as pet trade animals, amongst them are the famous Lace monitor we just started to work with and 3 localities Salvadorii, Ornatus, also black throat. We want to concentrate on all varanids except the big guys.
Rgds

[ReptiZone]

I can but I am a bit rusty nothing a few sessions with a adult speciman can't fix.

Hey I am in montreal now if you need a few hands at the shop I would love to do what I can. To contribute to the hobby. Pm me if you want my number.

[Tim and Julie B]

My personal opinion is that, true they aren't for everybody, but I still think that the species should be breed in captivity to insure that one the species has a solid captive breed foundation in the future to preserve these important reptiles. And second that there are still a few people dedicated to larger monitors and how are the next generation of reptile keepers ( The next Steeve and Mark B's) going to gain any knowledge or experiance if these reps become harder to find. If you truely want to stop unknowledgable people from getting those large monitors then make them knowledgable through education. Like say writing and publishing a book or something else to help people understand the commitment that it takes to keep one of these large reptiles. I truely believe that every reptile species in captivity diserves to breed for the future success of the animal and to preserve it for future generations. This is just my humble opinion Steeve but I hope it will give you something to think about! Take care as always, Tim B.

[Linds]

Not at this time I don't! I'm not a big person, and I do belive that you should never be working with such large species of lizard or snake without at least one other person around to assist if needed. I currently do not have anyone to assist me with such. I have worked with monitors as large as Black Throats alone, but only minor practices such as feeding... I wouldn't dream of trying to handle one with no other person present. That asides, I could not provide for a large monitor, or even a small or medium sized one (I dream of the day I have a Peach Throat in my collection.......). I do not have the space to dedicate to an adequate enclosure for even dwarfs right now, let alone large ones. As much as I want one, there will be none, large or small, in the near future for me (past and future work excluded, but none in my private collection).

[LadyHawke]

i have the space and the ability to care and work with large monitors......i am actually in the process of trying to find an asian water monitor, as i lost my baby due to unforeseen circumstances, but i do believe this is not a reptile for everyone, and would highly question someone's motives for getting one just to be sure its the right reasons

[burmer]

I agree with Tim, they are not for everyone. The one I have now is my first and it's a nile. I know that it's not the best choice for a first. But I am able to provide what he needs, and I am learning as I go. I would still like to see the large monitors for sale but in the large numbers that we see them today. I don't know if reducing how many are imported will change anything. I would also like to see them bred in captivity as well. Again I agree with Tim that there should be lots of education involved.

[Steeve B]

What your saying is important, and that’s the reason I started to work with endangered animals, Varanids are a small part of my work and aim learning every day about them, many are perhaps not as endangered as previously tot, for example none of the Australian varanids are rare in there habitat at least not any of the species offered in the pet trade this including Varius witch are a pest in there habitat. This is why we will probably never offer them.
Also many Indonesian species are quit common, except for a few species mainly Island forms none seems to be in peril, when we started working with Salvadorii the information we hade on there statue was critical, now we know they may very well be the one of the most plentiful Varanids in PNG, theirs even 4+ knew localities known to suppliers.

I don’t think it’s a question about experience with giant varanids, in the case of Salvadorii and Komodo I who’d say it’s a matter of common sense! I mean who who’d want to keep an animal they cant handle safely, yet every time photos of adult are displayed peoples want them anyway, even more so when hatchelling are shown, I have yet to see one person who don’t think they will tame them, a few assured me they who dent mind if the animal never becomes hand able, this makes me question myself, I cant imagine having an animal 40+ years that I cant be safe with.
However most species of Indo Varanids can be kept and cared for quit easily, those we label as problematic are Salvator (large form) Bengalensis and Salvadorii. I was offered CBB Komodo 5 years ago! And offered again the next year at a fraction of what I paid for many varanids, this offer made me realise just how silly the whole pet industry can be.

This hubby already suffered many legislation and banning of many species in some province, I never was a supplier of the Canadian pet trade, no dough I will become soon, butt I will not contribute to the diminish of this hobby buy supplying animals susceptible to bring new legislation among us, I think no monetary or any personal motivation can justify the supply of such animals.
Maybe aim very wrong about this hole concept, many will say it’s not my problem what peoples do with there animals, other will say it’s the one who buys it that’s responsible.

But for now aim the one who can supply 1000s of animals to the pet trade, and I take this matter very seriously, this why I who’d like every bodies view about this thread.

thanks all for your posts
Kind Regards

[Jeff_Favelle]

No, SteveB, you are RIGHT. And pretty much every TOP varanid breeder shares your thoughts. You are not alone and your ethics and values are commendable.

We're lucky to have you in our hobby. Lead the way partner!!

[Bryce Masuk]

Steeve I see waht your saying and the only hole in it is What about the people who want monitor's in the future and now that actually will care for them teh way they should be and are willing to get hammered a few times because they want to work with monitor's that much monitors need to licenced out and if they govenment wont do it train and get the people who plan to buy from you in with the adults and make sure they are able to care for them as well as they deserve to be treated anyway's if you wont provide CB animal's people will still get them out of the wild the people that are willing to pay the price premium cb has are willing to do what it takes to care for them
But other then that I agree not everyone should ever have a croc monitor but why punish those who should

[Steeve B]

That who’d be a good Idea! To train peoples with some of my monitors, this who’d give them a real view of what there in for. However I can’t because of insurance policies

I believe to any problem theirs a solution, someone on this forum must have a solution I haven’t tot about.
Also aim not interested in preventing anyone from keeping there dream animal, as far as aim concerned worst comes to worst the government who’d ban only the trouble species, but is this acceptable if it can be prevented. I am nobody to dictate what others may or may not keep, however aim fully aware of the frightening numbers of dog bite every year, still only a few make the news, why? Is it because animal products and affiliated industries generate so much profit, that informing the population who’d only be bad for business.
This is very sad facts when we all know; a simple varanids bite will make morning news and new legislation. REPTILES are and will always be (The book emissary) of the pet trade! Yes this is injustice, but I think varanids education isn’t all that’s needed for future Big Varanids owners; they also need social and legal advising.

Keep em coming guys!

Appreciated
Rgds

[NiagaraReptiles]

Originally posted by Steeve B
..... for example none of the Australian varanids are rare in there habitat at least not any of the species offered in the pet trade this including Varius witch are a pest in there habitat. This is why we will probably never offer them.

Does this mean your big plan of a blow out varius sale is off? I was really looking forward to that......


As for Australian monitors not needing captive conservation.....you don't feel that it is important to have established captive populations for zoos and private collectors around the world, primarily since they're not allowed out of Australia? You're right in that many species are quite abundant in thier natural range, but I fail to see how that makes them not important to keep and breed in captivity. Perhaps I've misread what you are saying, but that is what it came across to me as.

The rest of the world (outside Australia) would really miss out on the opportunity to work with some pretty amazing animals. I think Australian monitors are the best to have so readily available. Sure beats supporting the mass farming industry of African Varanids, or the over collectiong of many Indonesian species, both of which have extremely high mortality rates.

[Emily-Fisher]

I probably could take care of one if I had the space but I know that I wouldn't do a very good job. In fact, anyone can take care of one if they have the space, it's just a matter of how well they could do it. Not to offend anyone but in my opinion, a large amount of the members here on ssnakess, counting myself, are not even responsible enough to even consider buying a huge monitor like a savannah but they buy them anyways because they are inexpensive and because many people think that it's "cool" to have a big, bulky monitor. Still, the most irresponsible people are always the ones who think like that so instead of asking "Who has the ability to care for a huge varanid", you should ask 'Who is responsible enough to care for a huge varanid." And there are few who are.

[V.hb]

Steve, I couldn't agree with you more. I see what you're saying completely. The hobby needs more people like yourself to see the reality behind everything, and not become clouded by the money involved. It really is quite rediculous what the average "joe" can end up with as a pet, and its even more rediculous that an animal with the potential to grow to dangerous size is looked at as a potential calm, and placid "pet". I think to many people are lead to believe they are buying a PET when they purchase most varanids. It's one thing to recieve a bite from a V.beccari, and another thing to be bitten or even tail whipped! by a 6 foot salvator, or in some cases a large salvadori!

I hope you continue to enjoy the varanids you currently have, because you completely deserve it with all of the education and help you offer to pretty well anyone who needs it!
all the best

[Steeve B]

Does this mean your big plan of a blow out varius sale is off? I was really looking forward to that......

My intension was to offer them at reasonable price maybe 1000ea, but they turn out to be not so good captive, even my Ornatus make better captive.

As for Australian monitors not needing captive conservation.....

Captive breeding of varanids has nothing to do with conservation, if you wanted to have any kind of impact on conservation you’d need to farm them for the skin trade in very large numbers.

you don't feel that it is important to have established captive populations for zoos and private collectors around the world,

I don’t believe in Zoos I did support a few with rare animals and many died, there politic is take take but don’t give!
As for supplying collectors, no I don’t think it’s important, not when theirs more then 40 species available to them.

I think Australian monitors are the best to have so readily available.

I also think your varanids make excellent captive, perhaps the best, but I don’t inbreed any animal and all my varanids have CITES documents, do you really think Australian varanids where imported by mistake or they where imported 15 years ago when it supposedly wasn’t illegal to do so?
Just for your information, I was asked to confiscate all Australian Varanids including yours, and I refused to do so. Maybe this will never happen maybe it will as Australia never issued CITES for any of there Varanids other then a few Zoo animals, under the Australian laws, all illegitimate fauna is there property regardless of country its in, this is fully supported by CITES in every country they deserve.
I who’d love to keep one as a pet, but this single animal can lead to the confiscation of my entire collection, any CITES official will tell you!

Sure beats supporting the mass farming industry of African Varanids,

Theirs no such thin as farming in Africa, they collect gravid females and ranch them as they do in INDO.

Or the over collection of many Indonesian species, both of which have extremely high mortality rates.

Only 2-3% makes it to the pet trade, the rest is skin trade animals, the rest 97% that’s what I call high mortality rates.

Read Remond Hosser for more information.

[V.hb]

Steve, do captive bred populations of these animals fall into the same catagory of being property of australia?