California Kingsnake

[dannybgoode]

Not good enough I'm afraid. If you make claims and ascertations in such a manner as to state them as fact prepared to be challenged to back them up.

[DJC Reptiles]

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

Not good enough I'm afraid. If you make claims and ascertations in such a manner as to state them as fact prepared to be challenged to back them up.

Please refer to the last response on the first page, where I provided my sources and information on California kingsnakes. This will be my last response to this argument.

[EL Ziggy]

My question is if a snake is eating, shedding, pooping and growing without any known issues how can we know definitively if the light bothers them? I ask because I've used red heat bulbs for a few years with a couple of different snake species and they all seem to be thriving. I am planning on using RHPs with my new enclosures but are the red heat bulbs harmful in the interim? I have CHEs as backups but I like the IR bulbs because they help with night viewing and I was under the impression that they were harmless. I'll admit I'm a little confused on this one.

[DJC Reptiles]

Originally Posted by EL Ziggy

My question is if a snake is eating, shedding, pooping and growing without any known issues how can we know definitively if the light bothers them? I ask because I've used red heat bulbs for a few years with a couple of different snake species and they all seem to be thriving. I am planning on using RHPs with my new enclosures but are the red heat bulbs harmful in the interim? I have CHEs as backups but I like the IR bulbs because they help with night viewing and I was under the impression that they were harmless. I'll admit I'm a little confused on this one.

Your absolutely right. If a snake is healthy, and doing everything they are supposed to, that is all that matters in the end. I have used infrared bulbs in my cornsnake's enclosure without any problems, and I highly suggest them as they seem to last longer, and provide better heat for my snake. It seems you have everything covered, as long as you continue to monitor temps, and your snake is doing everything it's supposed to, there is no need to change anything. If the light bothered them, they would show it, they would be extremely fussy about everything.

Hope this helps!
-DJC Reptiles

[TRD]

A red light =/= an infrared light. A red light bulb still emits visible red light, snakes and humans can perfectly see that. The red colored and branded "Infra red" aren't infra red lights at all. They are just painted red most of the times, but are just the same technology as any other incandescent light. All incandescent lights emit about 95-75% of their energy in infra red wavelengths, regardless of color of the light.

[DJC Reptiles]

Originally Posted by TRD

A red light =/= an infrared light. A red light bulb still emits visible red light, snakes and humans can perfectly see that. The red colored and branded "Infra red" aren't infra red lights at all. They are just painted red most of the times, but are just the same technology as any other incandescent light. All incandescent lights emit about 95-75% of their energy in infra red wavelengths, regardless of color of the light.

Yes, but I was referring to a pure infrared bulb, such as a ceramic heater. Not the red light bulb that is used. This is probably confusing for anyone reading through what happened. What I meant is, these snakes can not detect pure infrared light. You are correct however, these snakes certainly can see red light. I understand how my post was a bit confusing, and I apologize for any inconvenience.

[TRD]

As for the Cali king, if your hot side is about 85F (ambient temp, surface temp can be much higher (95-100F) without issues) and your cold side doesn't go below 75 F during daytime, and without lights the ambient doesn't drop below 70 F at night, you don't need any night time heating. I would argue that night time can be dropping to lower temps, given their natural habitat. So basically there's no need to heat at night whatsoever when ample heating is provided during the day. Just provide a normal (not colored) heat light.

I already stated that blue, red, whatever color incandescent light source is the same thing, a color coating may change it's visual spectrum towards warmer or colder colors, but it doesn't change it's emittance in the IR spectrum (coating doesn't block IR wavelengths). The only true IR only emitting sources used for reptiles are UTH, RHP, CHE, Heat Tape, Arcadia Deep Heat Projector, out of which the latter is by far the best heat source after incandescent/halogen lighting. Reptiles can see blue and red colored light, it's not a good night time heat source.

They need about 50-60% humidity, which is quite typical for most households, though i would only worry about that if the snake has issues with shedding or when it's exceptionally dry in your house (~20%).

Provide drinking water always, feed once a week. Snake will do just fine.

[TRD]

I see, I think people get too easily confused with what IR radiation exactly is, certainly because of marketing people putting stuff like this on the market:



That's about as misleading as it gets... and many people provide that with the understanding that that is an infrared light and reptiles can't see it. Reptiles have far better vision than most people give them credit for (much better than a cat for example, also during night)

This is also why I think danny got confused as the discussion was about red light bulbs, and you talk about CHEs, but it isn't clarified anywhere. Danny's point is that red light can be seen by reptiles and shouldn't be used as night time heat source. He has seen it as well more than once that people use blue and red light at night, thinking it's OK... it's not OK and messes with the animals circadian rhythm.

[DJC Reptiles]

You're absolutely right, I feel it is terrible that companies will trick unknowning customers into buying things with misleading names. It was certainly confusing enough for me starting out, and I understand I should have been more clear in what I was trying to say.

[Moneek]

Ok so now I'm very confused so don't use my red lightbulb at night?? It gives me perfect temps ..I was told use it 10pm-10am..

[TRD]

What is the temp of your room at night? If that doesn't drop below 70 F you don't need any heating at night for a Cali king.

[DJC Reptiles]

If it does drop below 70°F try to use a ceramic heat emitter which only produces infrared heat. Sorry for the confusion.

Hope this helps!
-DJC Reptiles

[dannybgoode]

My apologies DJC. Two things to bear in mind 1/ I'm a Yorkshireman so say things as they are and 2/ I'm prone to bouts of grumpiness. The 2 sometimes do not mix very well.

Yes, a pure infrared heat source such as a che is fine iro of non-visibility but they only emit far IR, IR-C, which is not the best for actually heating muscle and flesh.

In terms of light at night I quote the following from John Courtney-Smith who owns and does the research into Arcadia reptile projects. He has released a new, true ir heater that I know TRD has been playing with and we've been discussing a lot in the UK.

---
Light output; it is VITAL to the D3/Ca/Mg cycles and circadian rythems that all animals have a period of total darkness. By total darkness we refer to a level of light equal to or less than the reflected by the moon. Generally this is around 4lux. The Deep Heat Projector produces true Infra-Red at below 4 lux. As such it is very safe to use 24/7 and should be. Day/night stats help here of course.
---

I'm not saying that I won't come across as blunt in the future because I'm sure I will but no offence intended to anyone .

[DJC Reptiles]

Hello Moneek,


First off, Apologies accepted, to dannybgoode, though I wasn't very clear in what I was saying either, I should have said I was referring to infrared ceramic heat emitters, and not infrared the bulb. But I agree, a ceramic heat emitter in my experience both costs less and lasts longer, and can be used 24/7 to provide appropriate heat in your reptile room (if your room doesn't drop below 70°F it may not be necessary to use the bulb 24/7, instead using it only in the day should suffice). Although I am not sure where you keep your son's snake? There should be a noticeable difference in day and night time so the snake can tell the difference, keeping him near a window will help this. Don't keep the snake directly in front of the window however, because in the summer the intense sunlight can build up heat and kill your snake. If you need to you can even use a low wattage fluorescent (not a heating light) to light up the cage a little bit (only do this if you think it is necessary, just make sure to turn it off at night. These lights would be used at the same time as the ceramic bulb for daytime.). No UVB lighting is required to keep most snakes, as their diet of whole prey will usually give them everything they need. In terms of california kingsnakes, they get their vitamin d3 in the whole prey they eat, such as rodents in captivity. Just make sure you provide a variety of hides and a water bowl, and everyone's advice should cover everything. Let me know if you have any questions .

Sorry for the confusion, hope this helps!
-DJC Reptiles

[dannybgoode]

Ooo don't get me and TRD started on the whole uvb for snakes .

Have a search on the forum for some lengthy mass debates on the subject. In a very short summary there is a ton of research to show that uvb is highly beneficial for snakes and I provide it for all mine.

No it's not essential for them to live in the way it is for a lot of lizards but it is desirable imo to give the option.