Keeping snakes without a hotspot

[Louv44]

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

what???

Guy said he spoke to a well respected snake breeder who said snakes don't need a hotspot? My point was simply that totally stupid, cold blooded animals need heat!! That's not really a debate topic lol ok the analogy I used wasn't the best but I was so blown away i could of went on for days. If your going to get an animal any animal get everything it needs or just simply don't get it.

I'm sure the guys whole argument was they eat and breed so they are fine that's where the heroin analogy came in some people do it an live don't mean everyone who does it will live or that it's a good idea, he is lucky his snakes lived or didn't get sick at the very least.

[Scubadiver59]

Quite a few acerbic comments in there.

And what is your experience...how many years have you been keeping reptiles? How many snakes do you have...how many different species? How can you call someone "stupid" when you don't back up your statements with nothing other than that strange analogy about heroin and a doctor? You've heard the phrase, "comparing apples to oranges?" I don't see where an opoid abusing medical professional has anything to do with herpeculturists and reptile husbandry.

Originally Posted by Louv44

Guy said he spoke to a well respected snake breeder who said snakes don't need a hotspot? My point was simply that totally stupid, cold blooded animals need heat!! That's not really a debate topic lol ok the analogy I used wasn't the best but I was so blown away i could of went on for days. If your going to get an animal any animal get everything it needs or just simply don't get it.

I'm sure the guys whole argument was they eat and breed so they are fine that's where the heroin analogy came in some people do it an live don't mean everyone who does it will live or that it's a good idea, he is lucky his snakes lived or didn't get sick at the very least.

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

Quite a few acerbic comments in there.

And what is your experience...how many years have you been keeping reptiles? How many snakes do you have...how many different species? How can you call someone "stupid" when you don't back up your statements with nothing other than that strange analogy about heroin and a doctor? You've heard the phrase, "comparing apples to oranges?" I don't see where an opoid abusing medical professional has anything to do with herpeculturists and reptile husbandry.

Doctor House was a pretty good doctor despite being on pills all the time lol.

[Andy_G]

What about the idea of incubation temps being the "ideal" for a species? Would this make sense to anyone else? Just a thought that I figured I would randomly throw that thought into the hat.

Originally Posted by Louv44

Guy said he spoke to a well respected snake breeder who said snakes don't need a hotspot? My point was simply that totally stupid, cold blooded animals need heat!! That's not really a debate topic lol ok the analogy I used wasn't the best but I was so blown away i could of went on for days. If your going to get an animal any animal get everything it needs or just simply don't get it.

I'm sure the guys whole argument was they eat and breed so they are fine that's where the heroin analogy came in some people do it an live don't mean everyone who does it will live or that it's a good idea, he is lucky his snakes lived or didn't get sick at the very least.

Lou...have you read the entire thread, including all of the evidence that this may not necessarily be a bad idea? Up until your post it's for the most part been very intriguing and thought provoking. From your comments, I am assuming that you most likely haven't...for example you mention lack of heat, but that isn't even remotely what is being presented here, nor is anyone outrightly saying or arguing that it's indeed correct. I'd suggest actually reading and processing the information and conversation presented here by the insightful and intelligent members we have before dismissing it and regarding it as stupid. I can tell you, flat out, there are multiple species (asian rats, some central american milks, geckos of new caledonia) that thrive at room temp, don't really need to thermoregulate (or when given the opportunity to do so they just don't do it), and some species can actually be harmed or perish when kept at warmer temps or given a hot spot that's too hot...so although I get where you're coming from...it's not entirely correct either and your statement really adds nothing but insult to the discussion.

[Louv44]

Scubadiver - first I certainly wasn't calling anyone stupid I would never do that and if I came off that way I apologize to everyone and I certainly don't consider myself a top 10,000 expert on the subject. I was calling that specific idea stupid. I don't think you need a lot of experience to know that in the wild cold blooded animals use heat to thermo-regulate and wouldn't it be fair to say we should provide any animal with what it would have in the wild? To answer your question I started keeping snakes when I was 11 but was around them before that cause my older brothers always had a bunch. I bred carpet pythons from 1994 to 2001, then wasout of the hobby until my kids wanted some 5 years ago. I've owned rat snakes, Corns, Kings, Ball pythons ( of course ) Argentine Boas, Columbian boas, Dominican red mountains but my main animal like I said was carpets. Again all we need to know that cold blooded animals need to thermo-regulate is any introductory science book? That's not debatable they are in fact cold blooded. So the win of not allowing them to do that is what? I saved a little money on a heat mat and thermostat and I can tell people look they lived! I just feel it's our duty if we choose to keep any animal we provide them with what they need they are helpless it's the correct thing to do. Again I agree I could written a much better post and again I apologize that's something I need to work on. It's just one mans opinion that it's wrong and really don't make sense, like why do that? What's the victory?

[Louv44]

AndyG - your 100 percent right I did not read the whole threat and should of before posting, can't argue a good point like that. I just apologized for some mistakes I made in a post to scubadiver as well.

[Louv44]

Last thing I wanted to add why I didn't agree. Also in general I was just talking about day to day living for a cold blooded animal. Take the health thing out of the picture. All of us who keep snakes see 95 percent of our snakes throughout the day or week, sometimes on the hot side sometimes on the cooler side. Being cold blooded they feel that few degree difference. Keeping the tank one temp we are removing the ability for that animal to cool off if it chooses. I would think we all got into this hobby cause we care about reptiles so we should provide them with the best environment we can, if an individual doesn't care about reptiles for any reason that's totally ok but don't get any ever.

I think the biggest thing is why do it? What is the victory in it?

Anyway those are the reasons I didn't agree and just my opinion. No big deal not the end of the world. Scuba and Andy were right my posts were not done correctly and I should of read it all. That's on me, I apologized for that part of it.

I almost didn't even reply the real reason I joined is when my kids wanted snakes it reminded me of How much I enjoyed this hobby and love these animals. Wanted to join this community and talk with people who feel the same and help people if possible and also get help and learn, we can all always learn more. Anyway have a good weekend all!

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by Louv44

Last thing I wanted to add why I didn't agree. Also in general I was just talking about day to day living for a cold blooded animal. Take the health thing out of the picture. All of us who keep snakes see 95 percent of our snakes throughout the day or week, sometimes on the hot side sometimes on the cooler side. Being cold blooded they feel that few degree difference. Keeping the tank one temp we are removing the ability for that animal to cool off if it chooses. I would think we all got into this hobby cause we care about reptiles so we should provide them with the best environment we can, if an individual doesn't care about reptiles for any reason that's totally ok but don't get any ever.

I think the biggest thing is why do it? What is the victory in it?

Anyway those are the reasons I didn't agree and just my opinion. No big deal not the end of the world. Scuba and Andy were right my posts were not done correctly and I should of read it all. That's on me, I apologized for that part of it.

I almost didn't even reply the real reason I joined is when my kids wanted snakes it reminded me of How much I enjoyed this hobby and love these animals. Wanted to join this community and talk with people who feel the same and help people if possible and also get help and learn, we can all always learn more. Anyway have a good weekend all!

It's not ridiculous to have that first knee jerk reaction so I don't think anyone will blame you for it. I had the same reaction when I heard of it. The problem is when at least with the keeper I was speaking to who also manages the reptile collection in a well respected zoo, he's kept just about any species you could possibly keep. All at that same temp. He was a pioneer in Chondros (green tree pythons), Carpets and keeping those the same way he was keeping his Prairie Rattlesnakes that are from North Dakota.

If your interested at all in reptiles in general the entire thread has great information people on all sides of the debate and examples involving wild reptiles that aren't entirely reliant on the temperatures we may have once thought.

I'm gonna break down your questions point by point but please do read through the thread because I'm not just gonna rehash things I've already said:

-Why keep a tank at one temp: Well it's very difficult to keep a tank at one consistent temp throughout the day, if you go balls to the wall with the strategy you have to essentially have a dedicated room for your snakes which is much easier to keep at a set temperature via either home heating or by thermostat controlled space heater (a nice semi-industrial one not the house fire kind). What I've mentioned that I do personally to do this on a tank by tank level is I've essentially tightened up my gradient. My cool side is warmer, my warm side is cooler. My snakes can access anywhere between 78-83F, as a result I have to worry about humidity very little.

-We care about reptiles: Absolutely, its why people are always trying to improve their care and husbandry. Even the best of the best aren't perfect. I believe that this is an improvement on the way people have been keeping their snakes. I'm not shouting from the hilltops for everyone to change what they are doing especially when it's working for them. But I've seen the animals people who keep their snakes this way and my animals are extraordinary in my opinion. I haven't been using this method long, 2 years or so. But if I'm sitting here 5 years from now with just as perfect animals I'm at least proving that there isn't any harm done by the method.

-What is the victory in it?: I haven't had a shedding issue or any other issue since I've started adopting some of the strategies of this theory while at the same time essentially being able to ignore humidity. I know people have issues with humidity, temperature control, everything, people can do things by the book and still have issues. I'm not seeing those issues, if my snakes are shedding well, eating ferociously, and are thriving then that is my measure of success as a keeper and that is my victory. I think in general it is easier to keep a tighter gradient in the smaller confines of an enclosure if the method proves true it could solve issues for other keepers as well and that would be an even bigger victory.

Either way, you're heart is in the right place but I do encourage you go back and read through everything that was posted here. Otherwise, welcome to the forum and what kind of snakes are you keeping?