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Once again from the world of tortoises, but tortoises "generate heat" after eating too. However, it is my understanding that it is not the tortoise that creates the heat but the gut flora and fermentation process that accompanies digestion in hind-gut fermenters. Something similar could be true for the crocodilians, tegus, and rattlesnakes... they are not producing heat like exotherms but if their gut flora is given fuel then the microorganisms may generate heat or initiate chemical processes that create heat. It would also make sense that larger meals result in more heat, the microorganisms have more fuel to work with.
I'm afraid that I don't have a citation for the tortoise heat generation, it has been a couple years since I read about it.
Once again from the world of tortoises, but tortoises "generate heat" after eating too. However, it is my understanding that it is not the tortoise that creates the heat but the gut flora and fermentation process that accompanies digestion in hind-gut fermenters. Something similar could be true for the crocodilians, tegus, and rattlesnakes... they are not producing heat like exotherms but if their gut flora is given fuel then the microorganisms may generate heat or initiate chemical processes that create heat. It would also make sense that larger meals result in more heat, the microorganisms have more fuel to work with.
I'm afraid that I don't have a citation for the tortoise heat generation, it has been a couple years since I read about it.
I'm not a scientist but your explanation for the snakes and tortoises is probably sound. I was just pointing out that they get warmer, I think with the crocs and tegus if feeding was causing it the people studying them would have seen that and I believe the tegus were on their way right out of hibernation so wouldn't have any food in them.
The whole subject is really interesting in general especially when you get down to the science-y parts of it. I'm not really defending the no hotspot or ambient temperature thing anymore, I just think the discussion is really interesting especially when people start whipping scientific papers around.
I wish that these journal study sites weren't so dang expensive, that's where the juicy stuff that doesn't make it into random reptile books is hidden lol. Can we get a forum wide account?
Reptiles are just so interesting in general.
Even the definitions of Ectotherms and Endotherms both start off with "so-called cold blooded" and "so-called warm blooded" and I'm not trying to get into a semantics argument here... but ectotherms do rely on external temperatures and endotherms do maintain their own temperature independent of the environment. But even endotherms rely on external temperatures to a certain extent and maybe even ectotherms can't be 100% reliant on external temperatures otherwise any random cold spell during springtime could wipe them out.
Even a mammal has a similar adaptation to the woodfrog:
From Business Insider: The link is to the sourced study
Arctic ground squirrels are the only mammal on this list, and for good reason. Although many mammals can handle the cold with downy coats of fur, and by hibernating away the cold months, none shut down for the winter like the arctic ground squirrel. Like the other contenders, these squirrels can also super-cool their bodies below its freezing point, down to -2.9° C (26.78° F), a record amongst mammals.
But the real impressive adaptation happens in the squirrels' brains — they can sever neural connections, synapses, for hibernation, and reconnect them as soon as they wake (and warm) up, roughly once every two or three weeks during the winter.
Dendrites are the branchlike portion of neurons that receive chemical messages from other neurons, and hibernation causes them to wither. A Russian study in the early 1990s found that dissected brains of squirrels mid-hibernation contained far fewer dendrites than the brains from squirrels that were woken up and allowed to acclimate.
And only two hours after waking from its slumber, the synapse connections are restored, with even more dendrite branches than before. But 12 to 15 hours later, the brain begins culling the connections again as the squirrel returns to hibernation.
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Back in regards to turtles, here is a video that is regarding captive turtles kept outdoors at Garden State Tortoise and the keeper has seen his Blanding's turtles are active in the 20F range. Towards the end of the video the keeper Chris Leone mentions that the Gulf Coast box turtles winter outside in New Jersey as well. It's kind of interesting the statement Kenan makes in regards to the genetics being decided long ago in regards to the conditions that box turtles can endure. Now, does this mean that we can drop a snake neck turtle from South America in a pond in Ohio where I live and expect good things to happen? No, absolutely not but I wonder how the ideal captive temperatures of various species of aquatic turtles measure up to one another and then furthermore what the keepers of multiple species are actually doing in practice that is working for them and their turtles.
Since mention was made of ratlesnakes, I thought I'd throw this out there. Scientists were trying to figure out how a certain species of rattlesnake could survive in sub-freezing temperatures and digest it's food.
They basically force fed one of these rattlesnakes and studied it under conditions mimicking it's habitat. After a period of time, they had to take emergency action to save the snake.
Well, they missed ONE thing! In the wild, rattlesnakes invenomate their prey which initiates and assists the digestive processes. They injected prey with venom and repeated the experiment with much success.
Since mention was made of ratlesnakes, I thought I'd throw this out there. Scientists were trying to figure out how a certain species of rattlesnake could survive in sub-freezing temperatures and digest it's food.
They basically force fed one of these rattlesnakes and studied it under conditions mimicking it's habitat. After a period of time, they had to take emergency action to save the snake.
Well, they missed ONE thing! In the wild, rattlesnakes invenomate their prey which initiates and assists the digestive processes. They injected prey with venom and repeated the experiment with much success.
Do we know whether they are actively feeding in sub-freezing temperatures in the wild? I'm no rattlesnake expert but I think that's really cool. Not just a, can they but do they kind of question.
If we think about the places these snakes are found, in North America at least (or even just North American Snakes in general) in regards to when the last ice age ended, 11,700 years ago is what google craps out from livescience. Potentially with a catastrophic meteor related event 13,000 years ago that might have wiped out the mega mammals and some prehistoric civilizations.
My question is this. Could the snakes have been alive in some of the areas very close to the ice sheets during this time period? Were these adaptations with the rattlesnakes, the crocodiles etc, a way for them to survive the colder climates brought on by the ice age? How much can a population REALLY change, genetically speaking, in the span of only a few 10's of thousands of years? The only source I can find on the ice sheets is estimated maps and generalized estimates of what temperatures were doing back then. The average accepted number I keep seeing is that overall average temperatures were lower by 10 - 40 degrees depending on area and what climate cycle was happening at the time.
Here's an forum conversation with some guy who wrote a book on pre-historic Georgia. Apparently weather hobbyists are a thing as well, he even has articles on reptile and amphibian fossils from that era.
How far north did reptiles, snakes in particular live during this time? Particularly out west? I'm gonna try and do some more research and see what I come back with as I think it is certainly interesting in better understanding more in general.
This information came from a TV show I watched. The whole point of the research was to figure out how these rattlesnakes could survive in the climate they were in..
I wish I could offer more, but it's been a few years.
This information came from a TV show I watched. The whole point of the research was to figure out how these rattlesnakes could survive in the climate they were in..
I wish I could offer more, but it's been a few years.
Hehe, I always hate that. Sucks that a lot of the older sites with interesting reptile information is gone, old books aren't at the library anymore etc. Random one off tips from actual breeders at shows and such.
Hybrid Mode
