Keeping snakes without a hotspot

[akane]

Originally Posted by jjhill001

I think the theory only works when we're talking snakes. Every other reptile "type" I think would have to be taken individually. Maybe there is a lizard number, a frog number, salamander, maybe this is something that is unique to snakes, who knows, it's incredibly interesting to be honest. We now have a report of someone doing something similar with tortoises in the thread. Could there be a "general acceptable temp" for each various family of reptiles? Honestly who knows. I'm gonna say probably not but who knows.

I think that there is less of a physiological difference between most snake species to other snake species, tortoise to other tortoise species than there is with say lizards, turtles, and salamanders. And perhaps that is what lends this method to those two types of reptiles best.

Overall I think it's really interesting.

My limited experience with lizards there is definitely no magic number to keep them all. I have crested geckos that would live in the upper levels of the cloud forest of new caledonia and are often kept unheated at room temp with breeding down to 68F and overheat easily so they are not kept over 80F with very rarely a basking spot. If used, relying on supplemented commercial diets has become more common, UV is often fluorescent lighting based instead of producing much heat. Having looked at native lizard species and biggest concentration seeming to be the hotter areas of the continent there are some truly diurnal desert dwellers that have a cool end in the 80s-90s during the day and basking spots over 100F. Many desert lizard species will be visible when snakes have sought shelter. The range is quite huge with lizards.


My captive keeping experience may have only reached it's first year but I wouldn't say all snakes only thermoregulate out of necessity. I see snake care rolled together like they are one species and often based on tropical or exotic species that are too busy avoiding heat or seeing little variation between day and night and I can understand some of the single temp rooms for large pythons and boas that I have seen people setup. They have limited basking and are probably quite content if they can maintain one ideal temp. Snakes are not one species though and I don't think just matching a temp and humidity ideal between species is enough difference in care for their difference in behavior and natural environment. For my North American natives I've had some that I switched from having a basking bulb to consistent heat with a fluorescent for lighting and despite being the same temperature all the time now they still go looking for the light when it comes on to find no increase in temp and return to hiding instead of laying out in the open like they used to. I have a corn that loves a lizard UV basking bulb and seeks it out beyond temps she will seek out from a CHE gradient. I tested the 2nd corn I now have and he also will seek out a basking bulb that is not UV but ignore the 24/7 che when the basking bulb goes off and simply go into shelter to wait for the next day instead.

It seems instinctual by some snakes to bask to the point I might consider it enrichment behavior and it certainly makes them more enjoyable to watch. Really all behaviors developed out of environmental need to survive but to not fulfill those behaviors has been seen more easily in mammals to cause various unhealthy changes in behavior despite removing the need for them. Maybe we can't compare the 2 but we have little research to prove either way so I'll go by what I see. I find my bulls are actually calmer and put on less of their defensive show when they get to go bask on a rock platform or area of warmed open dirt between decor. Contrary to the wild warm snakes being more aggressive than cold but these snakes are comfortable with me around and remain basking without caring what I'm doing compared to when they are actively moving about the cool end of the enclosure or getting protective inside a cool hide. When they aren't lazily basking you are far more likely to get bluffing strikes out of them.

On the other end, which shows species difference, my desert king responds to cooling events. Instead of giving him basking spots he comes out on "rain days" I mimic for the bioactive critters to stay alive or if I run 2 lights so one goes out and cools partially in the evening. His activity is limited to drinking, checking for rodents, and going back to shelter if kept at any one temp even on the low end of the suggested range for their health with no attempt to bask when temps are low but he becomes extremely active for hours even with lights still on if he has a hot and cool period. It is far more interesting to watch him explore all over the entire evening when he is kept warm during the day with a temp drop shortly before lights out than to try to keep him at one temp where he hides, drinks, checks for rodents, hides, and stops to eat quickly on feeding day. In his previous tank I actually didn't see him for a week at a time because he'd use burrowing instead of hides and I provided no "rain days" because it had no bioactive cleanup crew or temp changes so he probably grabbed some water nocturnally and occasionally you'd see his black head meant to blend in sticking out to check things from his burrow. The rodent disappeared off the feeding rock and sheds would appear about the time I'd start threatening to dig him out and I was keeping him cooler than I keep his daytime now. There was just no change between day and night and no other cooling events so instinctually he never came out into the heat during lights on or for long periods even if it wasn't as hot.

I love watching the behaviors they display when you mimic parts of the environment you can and I see no increased stress from doing so or decreased stress just keeping them at what is considered to be the ideal for them across the enclosure 24/7. I am talking about specific species though. I learned I wouldn't do it with a blood python. I'd rather have a fully controlled specific room that does not have a gradient, basking, or cooling because they do not seem to respond with anywhere near the same strength to any of those things except to become reactive at higher temps. They don't seek changing conditions with the same vigor and seem quite content to sit, waiting for something like prey, at a set temp and humidity all the time. It is such different behavior and responses between species evolved in such different environments that I would no longer apply the same type of husbandry because, ignoring enjoyment of behavior displays, it did not even result in equally healthy snakes.