Keeping snakes without a hotspot

[jjhill001]

Originally Posted by dannybgoode

There's one very important aspect that is being overlooked here and why I still fundamentally disagree with a lot of what's been posted.

So, you see a snake basking on a rock or some hard ground or a branch. It's easy 3pm and the air temperature is a nice 26c.

What is the temperature of the rock, ground, branch whatever. It'll be at least several degrees warmer than the air temperature and in some cases 40-50c. Air temperature is a really bad measure of what a snake is wanting to bask at.

Get a decent thermometer and a temp gun and take some measurements yourselves and see - especially those of you lucky enough to live somewhere wild snakes are common. See a snake and zap its being spot with a temp gun and see just how warm the ground is.

Where my T lepidus is outside I measured the air temp at around 24c and the ground in the sun in his enclosure at 33c.

He sometimes basks where it is warmest and sometimes hides where the ground is cooler but the air temp is pretty consistent during the day.

Keeping snakes at low air temperature can often mean the 'ground' is way too cold.

"What is the temperature of the rock, ground, branch whatever. It'll be at least several degrees warmer than the air temperature and in some cases 40-50c. Air temperature is a really bad measure of what a snake is wanting to bask at."

Absolutely agree, but the idea states that the temperatures we offer are not too hot like a snake would experience in nature (it's chasing a core body temperature). I'm in North East Ohio and just went outside and temp gunned a log that's in direct sunlight in my backyard. It's 80 degree's outside, the log's surface temperature is 110 degrees F and it rained literally 30 minutes ago. I don't know of any keeper that, in the confines of even some of the larger enclosures we offer for most snake, that would feel comfortable offering a 110 degree spot. I'd imagine on a day like this I would find very few snakes basking because the temperature is kind of where it needs to be for them. The dark color of the snake would increase the ability to heat up tremendously.

The reason I think, that captive snakes will sit on a 90 degree hotspot for seemingly days on end is because it never gets so hot it has to move. If we think about how important security is to a snake it makes sense. Back in the BP example I used we see they'll sit in those termite mounds which are 87 degrees. Is the python there because the temp is that warm or because most animals avoid termite mounds because they don't want to be bitten? As we know the pythons are most active at night which in their home range is 75 degrees. I think the ball python just deals with that heat like all sub Saharan animals have to.

I think this is kind of similar to the movement going on over in the monitor and bearded dragon communities. 100 degrees just isn't hot enough of a spot for those animals, there are keepers experimenting with 120, 140, I've even seen 160 degrees F hot spots. Now these are totally different animals entirely but I think the basic idea behind it is similar. Here in Ohio that log was 30 degrees warmer than the air temperature, would it not be more natural in captivity that if we're offering a hot spot that it's closer to that 110 degree temperature? And why are we offering hot spots to species that we know in the wild, don't bask?

It's similar to cooking in a sense, the core temperature of the log isn't going to be as warm as the surface temperature, the heat hits the surface and gradually goes into say, a steak. A room temperature steak that is about an inch thick is going to take a while to reach 110 degrees in the center of it if the surface temperature of you're skillet is only 110 degrees.

I think of ambient heating sort of like sou vide method of cooking where the food is submerged in water set at the exact temperature you want the meat. A medium rare steak (130F) that is 1 inch thick takes an hour to reach a full temp of 130F in the same temperature water.

In the wild, a temperate snake has to use the skillet method, we look at a snake, if it is warming up from say a 65 degree night, it only has to reach that 80 degree core temperature. By sitting in the morning sun which as I just experimented can easily cause a dark surface to be 30 degrees warmer than the air temperature it makes even more sense. Then as the air temperature reaches a more optimal temp we don't see the snakes basking much.

The snakes in tropical areas where it's just hot, period no matter what you do, just have to deal with obnoxious heat until night time when they can do what they need to do.