Blackheaded Pythons?

[jossh27]

availability is definitely the biggest factor, then price, then quality of animal. i littlde bit ago i went on a pretty big hunt for bhp in canada and the end result was that i couldn't find find the visual quality of animal i wanted. First BHP's i saw were from your site, derek and it set the bar so damn high i feel i may never get one... thanks, haha

sorry availability, quality then price is what held me back from obtaining one

[Derek Roddy]

OK Thanks everyone for answering this thread for me.

I'm in the middle of doing a market study about this topic and just wanted to get a better idea of where various "groups" of reptile keepers stand on this issue.

It's more of a study of the buyer.....not the animals.


That said, I have to find various forums to make this study as I've noticed that certain forums, have certain keepers.

For example, this forum has a majority of "hobbyist" (not so much interested in the breeding of a species but, more of everyday enjoyment, etc) and that's great.

Where as... a forum like Bush League has "breeders" and lots of them....and that's cool too.

So it would be no surprise, that the answers over there are completely different than the answers here. And that's great because none of us do this for the same reasons.

My curiosity was peaked when an argument started over what people would pay for an animal and the reasons they would pay that much.

Of course, everyone has their own thoughts about the hobby (on a whole) but was interesting to hear what people "thought" about this subject.


And I guess it all depends on what it is you want to get out of the hobby.

For me, I've had a snake since I was 4 years old. (I'm 45 now)
in the beginning, it was......catch anything I could, keep it for a short time to observe, then release.

Every now and then my dad and I would catch a gravid rat snake, let her lay, let her go and then hatch and release the babies.

That started my love of wanting to breed and lead me to be where I am in the hobby. It wasn't that I started out thinking...."I'm going to be a snake breeder" but, the love of the hobby itself sure did lead me there.

Anyway, thanks agin for the discussion. If I get anymore info about this....I'll share and if anybody has any other thoughts about it.....please tell.

Cheers,
D

[Aaron_S]

Derek, question then, what do you plan to do with the results? What is the market study for? Simply for your own information to have on hand?

As for your survey, I have answered already but for the sake of it, for me, I'd pay pretty much any amount for a snake that I felt was my "unicorn" in the hobby. Like you, I started out just keeping for the love it. Never went out looking to be a breeder at the start (I was 12 with my first snake).

[Minkness]

Yeah, but if that 'unicorn' is 10k and you knly have 3k to spend....you won't be getting it.

If Ihad unlimited funds to spend as I wished, I probably wouldn't care as much about price. But sadly, that fantasy doesn't exist yet lol

[MDT]

it is all about unicorn priorities. if you want a 10k snake and have 3k, then you save 7k..if that means $10/month or $100/month until your goal is reached, then so be it. cut out starbucks, cut out video games, movies, whatever. we all have our "discretionary" spending, and there is nothing wrong with that. it just depends whether something else comes along to rearrange what you spend that on.

i also know that at 49 and well entrenched in my career, i have a lot more discretionary income to goof off with than i did when i was 20 or 30. that just happens with time.

[Minkness]

I agree, but there's a difference between 'affordable now' and 'affordable later'. As stated before, anyone can save up eventually.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Minkness

Yeah, but if that 'unicorn' is 10k and you knly have 3k to spend....you won't be getting it.

If Ihad unlimited funds to spend as I wished, I probably wouldn't care as much about price. But sadly, that fantasy doesn't exist yet lol

I never set my time frame on obtaining the "unicorn"

[chairman]

Well, there's some difference between unicorns and unicorns that you intend to sell the offspring of. A $10k pet is a huge chunk of change but a $10k breeder is going to at least partially reimburse you. But I think that's in line with something that has already been mentioned, expensive morphs sell first to breeders and then make it to hobbyists when the price drops.

For a market research perspective, I expect that high-end uncommon animals will have a significantly smaller customer pool and spend more time on the market than high-end common animals.

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Derek, question then, what do you plan to do with the results? What is the market study for? Simply for your own information to have on hand?

As for your survey, I have answered already but for the sake of it, for me, I'd pay pretty much any amount for a snake that I felt was my "unicorn" in the hobby. Like you, I started out just keeping for the love it. Never went out looking to be a breeder at the start (I was 12 with my first snake).

Yeah, just for my own use. Trying to trim time on where to post, etc about the animals for sale.

And of course, to get a perspective on the market in general.

It's a great discussion because we all do this for our very own personal reasons.

I got involved with the BHP's because I knew I had the ability to "get it right" with the breeding so, I then took it to "creating art".

That's how I look at it....just creating living art.

I picked the BHPs because not a lot of people are (or have been) truly successful with them. And there has never been any line, selective breeding over 1 generation done in the US.
I knew from a market stand point (and if I wanted these animals to eventually pay for themselves. haha) That I could do what a lot of others couldn't because, I understand myself first.....then the animal.

I wanted a focus species that was
difficult to breed,
not a lot of people had,
retained their value (which is tough in the market)
and had very little morphs to pollute the natural form so it was a long lasting investment.

But, that's just me.....plenty of other reasons why we buy snakes.....I just wanted to pick a few forums for those reasons.

Thanks everyone.

D

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by Minkness

I agree, but there's a difference between 'affordable now' and 'affordable later'. As stated before, anyone can save up eventually.

I was lucky when I purchased my first pair of BHPs.

They were from a local gentleman who gave me a payment plan. He allowed me to pay him off over the time it took him to get them started feeding (which can be several months)

If it wasn't for that, I most likely would have had to wait a couple more years to everything together at once.

That's the biggest reason I offer payment plans myself.

D

[Derek Roddy]

Originally Posted by chairman

For a market research perspective, I expect that high-end uncommon animals will have a significantly smaller customer pool and spend more time on the market than high-end common animals.

That's true to a certain degree.
There are so many variables to this whole discussion but, the person selling the animals and, the quality of the animals themselves mean a lot in the market.
If both those things line up...usually animals move quickly, regardless the species.

But then you also have to take into account your market. If you have no sense of the market and over produce...you either sit on animals or lower price to move them if you need to.

In my case I usually under produce so, it keeps the value of my "lines" up and customer list long.

I understand my market because I get out here and do threads and searches like this every year to see where keepers are at in their mindset. Keeps the market on my animals valid, simply by doing a little research.

And again, this thought process doesn't work for everyone. And that's All good.

D

[Nick V]

I know this is an old thread, but I hardly go on here anymore and very much feel the need to chime in here. I currently have a black headed python and didn't plan on getting one for quite some time. The person I got her from was selling a high quality animal for half the price of what a normal bhp would go for. I do have to agree that a bhp is a beautiful animal but someone cannot ask $2,000 for a standard bhp when a high quality one is available for the same price, which is already rather high. So, those that produce the high quality ones sell them very quickly (I take it) and what's leftover are less attractive animals here and there that pop on kingsnake or fauna and I think that it deters a lot of people who would otherwise consider buying a more attractive animal at that price. I plan on (and have been saving up) for another bhp but the impulse buy of a cheaper, yet still expensive, high quality one set me back down to saving up for a second one. I think for most people, and definitely for me, saving up for one will take a decent amount of time, so establishing a group to breed will take many years and dollars to accomplish. I also feel like there are a lot of rogue keepers, like me, who have just one or two animals that haven't actually started producing any yet. Then there are people who look at snakes as money makers, so if you can't force feed a bhp to adult size in two years (like you could a ball python) then the investment isn't worth it to those people. Then, those who look past how long it takes to get them to breeding size have a false interpretation that bhp's are difficult animals because of their sensitivity of fatty foods. In all, I think it is a combination of those things that make bhp's out of reach and out of mind to those contemplating acquiring this beautiful species. I think bhp's are truly incredible animals and are hands down one of my favorite snakes, but it will be a gradual process of them gaining popularity with what the majority of keepers/breeders look for in an animal. Eventually, rogue keepers will have their collections grow and I think years down the road that will drive down the price for them and offer more morphs and make the few morphs that are already out there more affordable to morph fans.

[sirtalis]

These are my #1 wanted snake, but price is the big factor for me, mainly because I'm 16 and I'd rather not spend a good chunk of my summer savings