Japanese Rat Snakes (E.climacophora)

Sylphie · 09-26-15, 10:09 AM

I recently found them really interesting and all, but there are few questions that maybe someone will be able to answer.

First of all, I know that there are a few localities and phases (blotched, striped, blue, green/brown), but I'm curious what if I would for example pair blotched green with striped blue? There aren't any "morphs", just localities, and I can't find any info about what will be produced if the pair will be mixed (most of breeders are pairing the same localities and colors).
And do localities vary in size?

Two: how are their personalities? I read very varied opinions, some articles are saying that they are rather shy and don't like being handled, while the others claim that they are really calm and active... Any personal experiences?

Three... Not a question, but I would love to see some pics, especially the one "before and after", as I would like to know how much they can change from hatchling to adult

toddnbecka · 09-27-15, 01:47 AM

No clue whether localities vary in size, but seems doubtful that there would be significant differences since they're the same species.
Disposition for handling is likely a matter of WC or CB, as well as the age they're started from. I have read that the adults will be flighty if they aren't handled when young. My female Everglades rat is like that, doesn't like to be touched, and doesn't settle down easily when picked up. She was over a year old when I got her, color already changed over to the orange, but still a long way from full adult size. The baby Thayeri kings are much calmer than she is, even the male seems to hae gotten over being pissy about being uncovered when he's burrowed in the aspen. They aren't typically as active as the Jap rats though, those are usually either on the move or hanging out in the open, and always happy to climb on out of the tank when the top is opened. No reaction to being touched or handled as they climb out, they just seem to accept it as normal when I pick them up and divert their direction.

Sylphie · 09-28-15, 02:57 AM

Thank you! I contacted a few breeders, and will definitely buy a pair in next year (as now breeding season is over and I want babies).

pet_snake_78 · 09-29-15, 09:50 PM

I would look up Amy Zerkle, I think she often has them for sale and has a great reputation.

Sylphie · 09-30-15, 02:21 AM

Thank you! I know Zerkle Co. but probably will get them from England. One breeder here is having a nice pair of really blue ones and green ones, so will get one blue and one green baby <3

Frisky · 10-09-15, 04:39 AM

Sylphie, I was going to say that you could get any unknown variation from crossing different localities. I would do it just to see what "Morphs", could emerge , even if not in the F1.

So, needless to say, I am so happy that you have decided to take a Blue and a Green. I trust that they are a 1.1

Sylphie · 10-09-15, 04:58 AM

Frisky, yeah I'm planning to get 1.1 pair of blue&green, but must wait until next year, as all the blue hatchlings from this season were already sold.

toddnbecka · 10-10-15, 12:54 AM

I was wondering about crossing the localities as well. It wouldn't be a big deal (to me) to pick up a female of a different locale to breed with the blue male when they mature. I have to wonder if anyone would actually want the mixed offspring though, considering how hybrids are generally viewed with such mixed opinions. Folks who have pure lineage usually prefer to keep it that way, and I'm not a fan of inbreeding anything having seen some of the results among aquarium fish over the years. Granted, we're discussing the same species rather than an unnatural cross like the king/milk snakes, but wouldn't the variations be relatively minimal since they are the same species? I never studied genetics, and don't intend to anytime soon, so I have little idea of the likley results.

Sylphie · 10-10-15, 02:13 AM

toddnbecka I'm wondering about the same. Maybe all the turquoise-green kunashirs are cross between the more pure localities? I mean the ones like these http://images3.dhd.de/99201216_760x570.jpg Or maybe it's totally random that some are pure blue, some pure green and some are mix of the two colors... Hard to tell as there isn't a lot of info about them.

toddnbecka · 10-10-15, 02:32 AM

I would think there would be some natural crosses in areas where their ranges are close together. (I believe those are called intergrades.) I doubt they've really been studied or documented, and there's likely some natural variations even among pure locale lines. It's mainly through selective captive breeding that the most desirable colors are produced, but there's alwaya a chance one might just get lucky too... lol.

jjhill001 · 10-11-15, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddnbecka

I would think there would be some natural crosses in areas where their ranges are close together. (I believe those are called intergrades.) I doubt they've really been studied or documented, and there's likely some natural variations even among pure locale lines. It's mainly through selective captive breeding that the most desirable colors are produced, but there's alwaya a chance one might just get lucky too... lol.

It's probably been studied and documented for this species but it's probably in Japanese

Frisky · 10-12-15, 01:29 AM

I am pretty sure that there are areas where their ranges overlap, and natural crosses have occurred. Todd, you hit the nail on the head by saying that these would be Intergrades and not Hybrids. True Hybrids are the crossing of two totally different species as far as I am concerned.

Sylphie, best of luck. The problem is that I don't know if I can wait for 4 years to see some results of your project. I am a pretty impatient person. lol

Sylphie · 10-12-15, 02:03 AM

Frisky, MAYBE, but that's a really big maybe I'll find older pair sooner... but they are really hard to find, and I want a pair of really blue and really green ones, not the turquise-green, so it's even harder... but who knows, maybe I'll have some luck

jjhill001, you're probably right... shame I can't read Japanese, hahaha!