Morph/species related illness? - Page 4

**lady_bug87** · 06-10-15, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Not sure how him talking about his personal experience is the same as him saying "things like they're fact". Who knows maybe you are the genius amongst dunces. I have read in several different forums that the spider gene is associated with head wobble. No one is doing studies on the issues of captive bred pet snakes, so all we have to go off of is the word of people in the hobby. No one said that all spider morphs all have head wobble just that they see it more often in this morph than others.

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964844]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

My experiences are facts. I have no reason to lie about what has happened to me and it is rude for you to call me a liar just because you have never seen this before. If you don't believe me, that is your problem. I share what has happened to me over the past 30+ years. You are just a rude person who likes to cause trouble. Stop trolling.

I'll just leave this here.

But I digress.

As for the wobble I'm not doubting it. I know it happens. I have seen it happen. To the point the thing can't eat? No. I don't believe that happens often at all. Not enough to get all huffy about it. Or to use the words "many times" then follow it up by saying not for the last while.

No matter what I say Jerry you'd find issue with me. So what's the difference?

Derek Roddy · 06-10-15, 05:40 AM

[QUOTE=lady_bug87;964819]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

so... it happens "many times" just not in the past few years?

I call BULLDOODIE on you. Big. Fat. Bull. Turds.

Actually, Time has zero effect on the expression of a gene. No amount of "outcrossing" or "Time" will "fix" a gene that has associated issue, like the spider or Jag. Comes with the gene.

ALL spider (And Jag morphs) have some type of neuro related issues. Some worse than others. Some... almost none at all but, still present if you know what to look for.

I too have witnessed spider balls (only a few) that were so messed up neurotically that they couldn't eat.....so, yes it is possible.

In fact, I'm dealing with a Jag for a friend right now that is so messed up it can't eat and has to be assist fed.

Also, the Albino Black Headed Python has issues and has only been a couple out of 20+ that have survived longer than a couple weeks out of the egg.

Cheers,
D

**lady_bug87** · 06-10-15, 06:00 AM

[QUOTE=Derek Roddy;964847]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Actually, Time has zero effect on the expression of a gene. No amount of "outcrossing" or "Time" will "fix" a gene that has associated issue, like the spider or Jag. Comes with the gene.

ALL spider (And Jag morphs) have some type of neuro related issues. Some worse than others. Some... almost none at all but, still present if you know what to look for.

I too have witnessed spider balls (only a few) that were so messed up neurotically that they couldn't eat.....so, yes it is possible.

In fact, I'm dealing with a Jag for a friend right now that is so messed up it can't eat and has to be assist fed.

Also, the Albino Black Headed Python has issues and has only been a couple out of 20+ that have survived longer than a couple weeks out of the egg.

Cheers,
D

See. I know it happens that it gets bad but I didn't think it was common.

RAD House · 06-10-15, 10:37 AM

No you said you didn't think it is ever bad enough to stop an animal from eating. Now you have two members with tons of experience telling you otherwise. Maybe it is time to bow out gracefully, instead of back pedaling.

SSSSnakes · 06-10-15, 12:45 PM

[QUOTE=Derek Roddy;964847]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Actually, Time has zero effect on the expression of a gene. No amount of "outcrossing" or "Time" will "fix" a gene that has associated issue, like the spider or Jag. Comes with the gene.

ALL spider (And Jag morphs) have some type of neuro related issues. Some worse than others. Some... almost none at all but, still present if you know what to look for.

I too have witnessed spider balls (only a few) that were so messed up neurotically that they couldn't eat.....so, yes it is possible.

In fact, I'm dealing with a Jag for a friend right now that is so messed up it can't eat and has to be assist fed.

Also, the Albino Black Headed Python has issues and has only been a couple out of 20+ that have survived longer than a couple weeks out of the egg.

Cheers,
D

When I said it has not happened in the past few years, I was not meaning that time may fix it. I was only stating that I have not had an issue with it in the past few years. I had to deal with about 4 spider ball years ago that had the wobble so bad they had to be assisted fed and could not eat on their own. Since then we have not had spider balls for sale until recently and they have shown no signs of the head wobble.

Derek Roddy · 06-10-15, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

When I said it has not happened in the past few years, I was not meaning that time may fix it. I was only stating that I have not had an issue with it in the past few years. I had to deal with about 4 spider ball years ago that had the wobble so bad they had to be assisted fed and could not eat on their own. Since then we have not had spider balls for sale until recently and they have shown no signs of the head wobble.

I was referring to Lady Bugs comment to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

so... it happens "many times" just not in the past few years?

I call BULLDOODIE on you. Big. Fat. Bull. Turds.

D

Albert Clark · 06-10-15, 02:17 PM

One of the references is OWAL reptiles, ( Oh What A Loser) as far as the list of known disabling maladies in some of our favorite bp morphs. The other would be VMS herpetoculture that has a section of literature about genetically acquired disabilities. Hope this helped.

**Aaron_S** · 06-10-15, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

No you said you didn't think it is ever bad enough to stop an animal from eating. Now you have two members with tons of experience telling you otherwise. Maybe it is time to bow out gracefully, instead of back pedaling.

My 18 years of experience with 100's of spiders conflict with the 4 animals in the "experienced" side.

4 animals makes me question if there were other issues. They are ball pythons afterall.

SSSSnakes · 06-10-15, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

My 18 years of experience with 100's of spiders conflict with the 4 animals in the "experienced" side.

4 animals makes me question if there were other issues. They are ball pythons afterall.

That was 4 spider balls with that problem, out of hundreds of spider balls that I dealt with.

**lady_bug87** · 06-10-15, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

No you said you didn't think it is ever bad enough to stop an animal from eating. Now you have two members with tons of experience telling you otherwise. Maybe it is time to bow out gracefully, instead of back pedaling.

I have never seen it. I don't think its common at all.

waaaay less common than Jerry noted. Hence why I called bullspit.

**lady_bug87** · 06-10-15, 06:56 PM

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964722]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

My source is me. Where I work I have had to assisted feed some spiders that had sever head wobble, to the point that they could not control the head and neck to eat. It has happened many times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

That was 4 spider balls with that problem, out of hundreds of spider balls that I dealt with.

Interesting. I'm not trying to be a brat or a stickler but These 2 bolded sentences seem to contradict.

For the record MesoCorney. THAT is back peddling

**Aaron_S** · 06-10-15, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

That was 4 spider balls with that problem, out of hundreds of spider balls that I dealt with.

Exactly. Still a small sample size that other factors have to be considered. I don't see how 4 animals out of thousands counts as "fact".

Other baby snakes don't always eat on their own either and they have no wobble.

SSSSnakes · 06-10-15, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I have never seen it. I don't think its common at all.

waaaay less common than Jerry noted. Hence why I called bullspit.

I never said it was common. I said I have seen it and it happens. Just because you and Aaron have not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Again calling me a liar is rude and is why people don't want to post, because they do not want to be attacked with sarcastic remarks. You can say I disagree with you and leave out the sarcastic remarks. Lets be polite and mature with each other.

**lady_bug87** · 06-10-15, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

I never said it was common. I said I have seen it and it happens. Just because you and Aaron have not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Again calling me a liar is rude and is why people don't want to post, because they do not want to be attacked with sarcastic remarks. You can say I disagree with you and leave out the sarcastic remarks. Lets be polite and mature with each other.

I suggest you take a look around the forum. browse my post history and then eat your words.

But sure I'll be the bad guy. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

SSSSnakes · 06-10-15, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Exactly. Still a small sample size that other factors have to be considered. I don't see how 4 animals out of thousands counts as "fact".

Other baby snakes don't always eat on their own either and they have no wobble.

The fact is that 4 spider balls had head wobble severe enough that they had to be assisted fed. I never said it was a common problem, only that it happens. You are going so far off this subject just to be right. So lets just say you are right and everyone else who disagrees with you or has had other personal experiences that you have never seen are wrong.