Can humidity be too high?

[SoPhilly]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I have yet to figure out how to completely stop mold in my BRB's enclosure. Both sphagnum moss and EcoEarth have molded on me. I have to completely switch the bedding out every few weeks, and it's getting expensive. I've tried adding more air holes, I've tried keeping the bedding completely dry and just spraying a little, I've tried getting a larger flexwatt to increase the area that's heated so maybe more will evaporate...nothing's worked for me. I'll probably see mold all the time until I start heating him with an RHP in his adult enclosure, which should dry out the bedding before it starts molding.

Are you using the sphangum moss just in the hides or all over? I agree with Albert, I have my CRB on cypress mulch for substrate, moss in hides, misting system that automatically goes on when humidity drops to 90%, (she's in a modified aquarium until she's big enough for her adult pvc enclosure)and I've never had mold anywhere since switching to that setup. Also never had anything other than full sheds with eyecaps. The cypress resists mold really well. Thumbs-up recommend.

[Snakesitter]

Glad to help. ;-)

[Snakesitter]

Digital are usually pretty accurate. The reading may be so high because the setup is relatively new, so there is still lots of initial moisture present. After a thorough viv cleaning and moss change I get a high spike, too, which fades away over a few days.

Boaphile and Animal Plastics are the best vivs for this species.

Add holes if you feel appropriate, but I would do so sparingly...easy to add, hard to take away.

Good luck!

[Sasha2]

LOL, is that your planted tank Snakesitter? Its pretty awesome looking.


I really dont care for cypress mulch. The only stuff I can find is walmart stuff and its just a bunch of big sharp slivers.I dont even think its real cypress anymore.
Im really thinking about doing the bio substrate in my 40 gallon breeder until he is older. I will need help with setting it up to hold humidity. Probably build my own lid with plexiglass.
Our house is warm so will only need a basking site. I worry more about it being too warm for him.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by SoPhilly

Are you using the sphangum moss just in the hides or all over? I agree with Albert, I have my CRB on cypress mulch for substrate, moss in hides, misting system that automatically goes on when humidity drops to 90%, (she's in a modified aquarium until she's big enough for her adult pvc enclosure)and I've never had mold anywhere since switching to that setup. Also never had anything other than full sheds with eyecaps. The cypress resists mold really well. Thumbs-up recommend.

Yes I use a light cover of sphagnum moss, to try to aid in it drying out. The new stuff I just got gone over a month now and just now needs to be changed, but I have yet to see cypress mulch anywhere where I live. I have a choice between EcoEarth, moss, sand, aspen, and pine/cedar. Of which only two I would use for any of my snakes. Lowe's or similar may carry cypress mulch idk, but I don't know if I'd trust it either.

[SoPhilly]

This is the stuff I use, you should be able to find it at any petsmart or petco, or on amazon. If you're interested


Forest Floor™ Bedding

[Snakesitter]

Nope, internet photo. ;-)

For moss, I highly recommend sphagnum. It pretty much never molds.

For substrate, I'd go with coco husk, orchid bark, or eco earth.

Good luck!

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by SoPhilly

This is the stuff I use, you should be able to find it at any petsmart or petco, or on amazon. If you're interested


Forest Floor™ Bedding

I haven't seen that anywhere around here, not even at Petsmart or Petco. It will end up being more expensive to use it if it ends up molding on me, too, but I can order some online and try it. One thing of moss is ~$5, and one 14.4 liter bag is about the same as 3 of the sphagnum moss bags but is ~$17 on Amazon without shipping. If it doesn't mold, it should save me money, though.

The only enclosures that I have a mold problem in are my flexwatt-heated ones. :/

[jarich]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I have yet to figure out how to completely stop mold in my BRB's enclosure. Both sphagnum moss and EcoEarth have molded on me. I have to completely switch the bedding out every few weeks, and it's getting expensive. I've tried adding more air holes, I've tried keeping the bedding completely dry and just spraying a little, I've tried getting a larger flexwatt to increase the area that's heated so maybe more will evaporate...nothing's worked for me. I'll probably see mold all the time until I start heating him with an RHP in his adult enclosure, which should dry out the bedding before it starts molding.

Have you considered using bioactive soil? It helps keep humidity constant, self regulates mold, and allows for more natural behaviour and immunity. Just a thought...

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by jarich

Have you considered using bioactive soil? It helps keep humidity constant, self regulates mold, and allows for more natural behaviour and immunity. Just a thought...

I have actually, I just don't know anything about it and it will take awhile of research to get it down. He's also in a temporary tub, so it could either be too small for a successful bioactive substrate, or he won't be in it long enough to bother. These guys do grow extremely slowly from what I've seen, though, so since he can stay in it until he's 3.5', he may not need to be moved out until he's like 3 years old.

He also likes to burrow, so I'm not sure if that would affect the substrate badly or not.

[ARCH3R]

I've never converted to true bioactive soil for many reasons, and I rarely see anyone put the cons so I will.

I admit to the benefits when done properly, and these are my viewpoints. I'm not putting my snakes in harm by not converting (trust me, their health comes first)

1-Decreases the beauty of the snake, especially with BRBs and they're curved irredescent scalation that catches dirt.
2- The introduction of isopods/detritivores CAN introduce parasites that are VERY hard to get rid of. If utilizing wood mites they can be easily mistaken for reptile mites.
3- If done properly then either PH must be checked consistently or most of the substrate needs to be changed 3-9 months depending on the insects, plants or soil used within. (To be fair normal substrate should be changed more often, but there's no concern of insects remaining when exchanging soil)
4- Due to all things above, it's just not easier than regular substrate. I spot check every couple days, I bake my substrate and clean the cages every month. To me that's not too difficult or time consuming.

[Sasha2]

I used the bioactive soil once but not long enough to see any benefits(it was with a ball python).
Ive got all the ingredients together now, organic hummus, sand and gravel. I intend to put it together this weekend but then I have to order springtails so it will be awhile yet before I get Dante in the tank. I have to get a piece of plexiglass for the lid too.
I think that the risk of parasites from isopods or springtails is seriously low if possible at all, maybe with earthworms gathered from the yard.The whole point of a planted or bioactive substrate is to get away from the sterile lab style of keeping a snake. Yes it more work at the beginning but in the long run it should be less work.
Anyway its worth a go, especially with one snake.

[Snakesitter]

Good luck -- please keep us posted on how it goes!

[jarich]

Originally Posted by ARCH3R

I've never converted to true bioactive soil for many reasons, and I rarely see anyone put the cons so I will.

I admit to the benefits when done properly, and these are my viewpoints. I'm not putting my snakes in harm by not converting (trust me, their health comes first)

1-Decreases the beauty of the snake, especially with BRBs and they're curved irredescent scalation that catches dirt.
2- The introduction of isopods/detritivores CAN introduce parasites that are VERY hard to get rid of. If utilizing wood mites they can be easily mistaken for reptile mites.
3- If done properly then either PH must be checked consistently or most of the substrate needs to be changed 3-9 months depending on the insects, plants or soil used within. (To be fair normal substrate should be changed more often, but there's no concern of insects remaining when exchanging soil)
4- Due to all things above, it's just not easier than regular substrate. I spot check every couple days, I bake my substrate and clean the cages every month. To me that's not too difficult or time consuming.

I appreciate your concerns and am glad to be able to alleviate them. I have all mine on bioactive soil and have for years now, so let me go through your list.

1. Not a problem. Soil should, like in the wild, have a covering of some sort, be it leaf litter, live moss or plants, etc. Also, a bioactive soil develops horizons over time. This means that the top layer will tend to sort of crust over, again like you see in the wild. That means you dont have to worry about 'dirty' snakes, unless they like to dig.

2. Not sure which parasites you would be referring to here. However, pretty universally, parasites that come with invertebrates do not parasitize vertebrates. Ive seen people refer to what you speak of when feeding crickets, but again its not true. You are more likely to give your snake parasites than the invertebrates you put in an enclosure. Generally speaking though, reptile parasites come from other reptiles, and are often so host specific that lizard parasites do not bother snakes or vice versa.
However, the interesting benefit with bioactive enclosures is that they will naturally counter the reintroduction of some common reptile parasites. Soil nemotodes and other substrate inhabitants will actually consume or outcompete some reptile parasites. Ive never had trouble telling reptile mites from wood mites, however, when you get reptile mites you can also use natural predatory/carnivorous mites against them too. Nature is handy that way.

3. If done properly, the system will function well enough that you do not have to check pH constantly or change the soil at all. Soil can be thought of like aquarium water. When its first set up it takes awhile for the bacteria/nitrogen cycle to bloom and grow. Once its set up properly though, its just a matter of making sure you arent overdoing it. I have multiple enclosures that have had the same substrate for years. When I open the door it smells like forest, not waste.

4. While I would disagree about the difficulty, ease is not really the main point. Bioactive enclosures, when done well, are healthier. What we are finding out about our, and pretty much every animal's, interaction with the soil is that it is healthier for us in the long run. Sterile environments generally mean a lowered immune function. I understand its not for everyone. They are not the easiest set up, and getting the soil right means treating the enclosure almost like another animal. It requires care, supervision and maintenance. In exchange though, you get a living biota, and an understanding of whole animal health in a way you cannot really understand in a sterile environment that has no interaction. I cant say enough good things about it.

[ARCH3R]

1- No experience with this personally so you could most definitely be correct. The snakes I've seen kept on bioactive look... natural.
2- Yes most definitely, and I'm glad you caught me on this as I misspoke. Certain parasites can be introduced such as mites or aphids from either the soil or the plants; This is of minimal concern as the most harm they cause is stress upon the owner when they believe they've found snake mites.

What I should of said is completing natures cycles allows for every party involved to thrive in the cycle. Many forms of bacteria can be introduced and will not be removed without complete breakdown of the setup. EG. Coccideosis.

3- While possible to create long standing soil that doesn't need any balancing it's VERY RARE. Lack of wind and animals, besides the one, doesn't allow for any natural process of fertilization. The first item to break in the cycle would be that of photo and chemosynthetic life. EG, plant can only survive in 6-8pH, detritivores increase phosphorous, subsequently lowering the pH and killing the plant. With the plant dead, CO2 increases and Oxygen decreases. The lack of oxygen lowers the reptiles metabolism, leading to lowered immune system, activity levels appetite etc. and on and on.

^^^Basically, nature is a wonderful cycle, and is tough to replicate.

4- If this is true I would love to see it, truly. I have been looking for a study on this, but only found one with a TERRIBLE model. While it may be true, very little is known about the reptile adaptive immunity.

I will say I like the debate thus far.