Quote:
Originally Posted by jossh27
i haven't read this entire thread, but whats the difference between feeding our pets live, or f/t over us (people) eating any kind of meat? cows and chickens among tons of different animals are strictly bread to feed us. - rats and mice are no different in my eyes.... maybe I'm a jerk, but i couldn't care less about the life of a mouse or rat or even a cow for that matter so long as it dies without suffering
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I don't really care about the prey, it's my animal I care about. Live prey can fight back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuester
And snakes can bond too! They may not have as deep as a connection but they can bond.
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No they can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuester
Also my corn is pretty attached to my doberman, not my other dog. Both my dogs have the same demeanor and personality but my corn will sleep with my doberman and not my other dog.
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No he's not. Don't do it. This is just dumb. This is how pets get killed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
Pros of Live
... The single biggest advantage live or fresh-killed rodents have over their frozen counterparts is simply that they are the freshest food source available. No proteins, vitamins or nutrients have been lost through time spent in the freezer. There seems to be a misconception on the part of frozen enthusiasts that there is no breakdown of these components in frozen, no doubt started by those who market frozen. Don't believe me? Go to your doctor and tell him you intend to raise your new baby on nothing but frozen foods from birth to adulthood and see what he says. Be prepared for a visit shortly after by child services. Also consider that human food gets lots of preservatives and additives designed to offset these losses, while frozen rodents get nothing. If there's no losses, why would profit hungry corporations go to the extra time and expense of adding these? The answer seems self-evident.
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There's a difference between frozen food and processed and preserved food. A doctor will ask what kind of frozen food. Frozen whole meats, fruits, and veggies are fine and keep remarkably well. Frozen TV dinners? Not so much...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
Another strong advantage of utilizing live pinkies and fuzzies is that they can be simply dropped in the cage and left overnight with stubborn feeders or new hatchlings. Small frozen rodents will quickly begin to decay and must be removed quickly from the cage if not eaten immediately. Many snakes resent the intrusion into the cage, and may not calm down enough to feed before the item must be removed. Other new babies may prefer to feed at night. This can make use of frozen foods impractical in large collections. ...
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You can do this with f/t pinkies and fuzzies. They don't decay that quickly. Shall I get one and perform an experiment? I just might actually...
In all collections you should make adjustments to your schedule to accommodate the needs of your animals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
Pros of Frozen
... There's really only one advantage to using frozen feeder rodents and that's convenience. Being able store a small quantity of frozen mice behind the frozen lasagna will eliminate a few trips to the store. You might even get a slightly better price by purchasing in quantity...
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Convenience, cost, lack of danger to the predator. It's nice not having to buy snake food every week. Live prey is typically very expensive compared to frozen bought in bulk. Finally, live prey can fight back. It's happened to many people. It happened to my cousin with his pet corn snake, he put a small mouse in and came back 30 minutes later to a dead corn snake and a bloody mouse. As you mentioned above, some snakes don't like to be disturbed while eating, if the prey item is quick enough it can kill the snake before the snake can settle down from the intrusion to the point where it's comfortable enough to eat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
Cons of Frozen
... Earlier in this article, we touched on loss of vitamins, minerals and nutrients during the freezing process. But we did not mention that the length of time spent in the freezer can increase these losses, not to mention cause freezer burn. It is recommended that you obtain the freshest frozen rodents possible. Making the assumption that your store has provided fresh ones can be a mistake, they may have been in the back of their freezer for months (or worse). Many commercial sources for frozen rodents will date each package with the date frozen, a real help in determining freshness.
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Deterioration and loss of nutrients doesn't occur that rapidly.
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Originally Posted by jjhill001
Now let's talk about problems with the method of feeding frozen. First and foremost, the frozen rodent MUST be thawed COMPLETELY before use. Each year we get several inquiries from keepers who have failed to do this and are having serious medical problems with their pets as a result. We always hold the rodent in the hand, feeling the thickest parts (especially the head) for any cool temperatures which might indicate that it is not completely thawed before feeding.
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This is accurate, however this comes down to people not being patient. Plan ahead and this isn't a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
But remember, over-thawing can be a whole lot worse! Read the label on a package of chicken. See where it discusses the dangers of exposing it to room temperatures? Well, this is exactly what you MUST do before feeding a frozen rodent! And this rodent is complete, with all gut content and bacteria, not to mention urine and feces, while the chicken has been stripped of all such nasties. So here we are, deliberately exposing a tainted piece of meat to dangerous temperatures before happily handing it to our pet. Sound bad? Well it is.
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Snakes digestive systems are different from ours. Not only are they opportunistic but there are documented cases of them being scavengers and eating dead things that they find. If the bacteria in the prey item were a danger to the snake, we would have reports of the snake getting sick as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
Salmonella and other nasty organisms can develop amazingly fast, and the real danger here is hidden. You happily feed without knowing and suddenly your snake has slimy green feces and is losing weight faster than an anorexic fashion model. Oh, and remember when you had to touch it to see if it was thawed? Now YOU'VE been exposed! Like it says on that chicken package, always wash hands and surfaces thoroughly with disinfectant (including feeding tongs or similar) after use.
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Again, differences in physiology. You should ALWAYS wash your hands anyways...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
Attempt to minimize the exposure to room temperatures. Thaw as quickly as possible, and offer immediately to your snake. Remove uneaten rodents quickly from the cage, in thirty minutes or less. many keepers will use the microwave oven to quickly thaw rodents. We don't recommend this for several reasons: It's easy to overheat the rodent and burn your snake. It's easy to accidentally cook portions of the meat (which reptiles cannot digest properly). It exposes your microwave oven to the same potential diseases as discussed above. many keepers will place the rodent inside a Ziploc bag and thaw in warm water. This greatly increases the rate of thawing and is the preferred method...
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As stated, snakes eat rotten prey and it doesn't negatively affect them in any way. 30 minutes? That's laughable. Some of my snakes need to be left alone for quite a bit longer than that just to start eating. Decay doesn't begin that quickly.
Microwave? That's a bad idea. You know what happens when something sealed is microwaved? Pop. I don't want to clean up rat guts in my microwave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjhill001
Conclusion
...the best and safest food source for captive snakes is fresh-killed rodents from clean disease-free stock...
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No.
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