Feeding live tools

trailblazer295 · 01-31-15, 07:18 AM

Hey guys and gals

A newbie has a feeding question. My BP was fed live at the store and I've carried that on. Now I've read about the dangers of feeding live and the simple steps to doing it safetly. Once I let it loose in the cage I've sat there with a light in one hand and a long shaft phillips screwdriver in the other in case the rat starts to bit the snake while being constricted. So far to date nearly every rat has been caught within 10 seconds of being let loose, most of the time the snake knows something is going on before I even get the box open. I wait until the rat is dead and the Mushu relaxes before walking away and leaving him alone for a few days. He has not been in hurt at all so far but I want to be prepared in case one rat is smart enough to truly fight back while being squeezed. My question is this the right tool to be using or should I buy something else? I've read a number of people are using tongs. Would these be better? Also tips on technique.

Thanks
Scott

Jim Smith · 01-31-15, 08:14 AM

I'm not sure how you could protect your snake if he grabs the rat and while he is wrapping his coils to constrict his prey, the rat bites his eye(s) or face. Even if the rat was just chewing on his body, what are you going to do, try to stab the rat with your Phillips head screw driver? Really??? You don't think you have a better than even chance of stabbing or cutting your snake in the hurried process of trying to stop the rat from biting the snake? I don't know why you feel compelled to feed live at all. Feed him freshly killed rats that you dangle at the end of tongs if you want, but feeding live rodents to any snake other than venomous snakes that only eat live prey is simply not worth the risk to the snake. Just one man's opinion.

shaunyboy · 01-31-15, 10:59 AM

imo there's NO way a human can be fast enough to intervene,if the prey decides to try and defend itself by biting

my advice would be try fresh killed,jiggled around on tongs,then once the snake takes the fresh killed,frozen thawed shouldn't be an issue

i have no moral issues with live feeding,i just think why take the risk and put your snake in harms way

cheers shaun

trailblazer295 · 01-31-15, 11:53 AM

How do you guys kill the rat?

SnoopySnake · 01-31-15, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailblazer295

How do you guys kill the rat?

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/food-...uthanasia.html

reptiledude987 · 01-31-15, 12:03 PM

Check out the humane euthanasia thread

Jim Smith · 01-31-15, 12:10 PM

Trailblazer295, Kudos to you for responding the way that you did. Quite often the responses to questions like the one you posted assume a defensive posture and can get quite unpleasant. You however, accepted the input offered as an opportunity to learn. Well done and with your attitude, I'm sure you will be an excellent and responsible snake owner for years to come.

IW17 · 01-31-15, 02:31 PM

What others have said above is true assuming you have an animal that takes pre killed /frozen thawed. I had a ball python that took 13 years to switch. Not common but can happen. In his case I would drop the rat and sit with a wooden back scratcher. When he would strike, if the rats mouth was in a spot that could inflict damage I would use the curved flat scratching part to create a barrier between the rats mouth and the snake. Nothing is 100% but it worked almost all the time. I am however grateful that those days are over and he's eating dead rats.

trailblazer295 · 01-31-15, 03:43 PM

I don't take offense to your personal views, everyone is entitled to their f/t vs live. I'm on this forum for information and another snake forum so I can do my best to keep him healthy. Personally I'd rather get bitten then him it's my responsibility. I can take your advice or ignore it but I'm open to better ways. He is a eager eater which is great for me being a newbie it's a lot less stressful.

To be clear the intent of the screwdriver was to hold the rats head/keep it's mouth full in case. I picked a phillips because it's not sharp and thus I couldn't hurt the snake accidentally. I wouldn't try stabbing the rat my accuracy wouldn't be that good and the rat would probably still hurt the snake before dying. Ethically I don't care about feeding live prey, it's a natural occurrence, yes this is captivity but plays out the same as nature. I don't condone torturing etc obviously but carnivores have to eat and something must die to do so.

As for fresh killed the thought had occurred to me before, I only have 1 snake and the local reptile store is close to home so I buy food on a per need basis and they have a return policy if it's not eaten. I haven't seen many threads on it so it just sort of hung out in the back of my mind. Most feeding questions are either live or switch from live to f/t. I like the idea of fresh killed.

I'll read the thread link and do some more research into it. Thanks for the input.

The link has some conflicting opinions. At the moment I have 1 snake but soon will have a childrens python to occupy his old home which will be eating pinky mice for awhile so no danger there. For someone who has 2 snakes which eventually be eating prey that can hurt what is a better method for me? What do you guys prefer?

Cmwells90 · 01-31-15, 04:33 PM

I would suggest buying frozen rats/mice if available, otherwise breaking the neck would be a suitable alternative, then dangle the prey so the snake thinks it's alive.

**Aaron_S** · 01-31-15, 05:47 PM

Try frozen/thawed. Usually eager eaters of live switch. It's worth a shot.

If the snake doesn't switch and you stick with live then I don't know of a tool that is fast enough to intervene on a rat biting the snake as it is being attacked/constricted. The best tool is a prey item that can't fight back.

fishingfool · 01-31-15, 06:39 PM

Hey man i feed live myself now i would use a pair of hemostats they act like a pry bar you can open the rats mouth now as for human speed and reaction time there are plenty of videos of humans doing amazeing things although we are not all capble of such i enjoy the hunting aspect of livefeeding us interesting. now just never leave a rat in a tank with a snake that's not acting hungry and rememver half if live feeding is in the size of the offered pry vs. size of snakes body/head witch i have noticed changes with diff snakes just make sure your always carefull you can buy tongs for feeding.also and dangle a rat to see if your snake is even going to have a feeding responce and mostly don't let anyone make you feel bad for your choice of feeding method f/t vs. live is a debate that tends to gwt heated

trailblazer295 · 01-31-15, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishingfool

Hey man i feed live myself now i would use a pair of hemostats they act like a pry bar you can open the rats mouth now as for human speed and reaction time there are plenty of videos of humans doing amazeing things although we are not all capble of such i enjoy the hunting aspect of livefeeding us interesting. now just never leave a rat in a tank with a snake that's not acting hungry and rememver half if live feeding is in the size of the offered pry vs. size of snakes body/head witch i have noticed changes with diff snakes just make sure your always carefull you can buy tongs for feeding.also and dangle a rat to see if your snake is even going to have a feeding responce and mostly don't let anyone make you feel bad for your choice of feeding method f/t vs. live is a debate that tends to gwt heated

I don't get bothered by peoples not liking live feeding. If you don't like it no problem make the choices you'd like but it doesn't mean I have to follow your words like you're god. But I am however a reptile newbie hence why I'm here asking questions from those with experience. It's the nature of anything, ask a question and you'll always get conflicting answers. Just have to take all the information in, weed through it and make your choice. I have a lot to learn I know about reptile care. Husbandry wise seems to be doing okay, stable hot side temps 90-92f, cold side fluctuates between night and day just because my home gets down to 65 overnight and I don't control the heat. Snake appears healthy and happy. Inquisitive when I hold him, moves around the tank at night. Before anyone freaks out about my temp swings on the cold side. I have a UTH controlled by one ranco stat with the sensor in his hot hide and a pro products RHP controlled by another ranco stat with the sensor spaced out of direct radiant heat line of sight. Also have another zilla thermometer/hygrometer to monitor things. I noticed an improvement in his activity since moving him into this home a few days ago. Nothing excessive just isn't in his hide almost every time I look, he will move around a bit before picking a hide. I'm open to tweaking my feeding over the long term.

I just want to have a reasonable and informative discussion about feeding and techniques and leave hardcore personal beliefs out of it. I'm not here to argue.