Small Bullsnake kills Hawk considerably larger than itself

Mikoh4792 · 07-27-14, 06:24 AM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204300333251369

eminart · 07-27-14, 07:01 AM

Cool. It happens. Meals fight back in the wild.

But, that wasn't a "young" hawk as the video states . Red tailed hawks don't get their red tails until the summer after they left the nest. So, that bird was at least a year old.

**EL Ziggy** · 07-27-14, 10:07 AM

Nice video but I'm torn. Should he have allowed let nature take it's course? I understand the morality of saving a life, and I love snakes and hawks, but now that one hawk will likely go on to kill several snakes.

Jackins · 07-27-14, 10:29 AM

Neat video; should have left the two alone though.

eminart · 07-27-14, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Should he have allowed let nature take it's course?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

but now that one hawk will likely go on to kill several snakes.

But not because of this. ^

Hawks kill snakes all the time. That's part of nature. You should let nature take its course, because that's how nature works. Hawks that allow themselves to get wrapped up by a constricting snake, may not be the ones nature wants passing on their genes.

**EL Ziggy** · 07-27-14, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eminart

Yes.

But not because of this. ^

Hawks kill snakes all the time. That's part of nature. You should let nature take its course, because that's how nature works. Hawks that allow themselves to get wrapped up by a constricting snake, may not be the ones nature wants passing on their genes.

You're right, hawks kill snakes all the time and I respect that. I guess my point was that when predators and prey conflict it's not our place to determine the winners and losers. And that by interfering we are disrupting nature's perfect balance, regardless of any good intentions.

BIGT FROM F.B. · 07-27-14, 03:49 PM

No judgment here. Cool video. I probably would have done the same thing. Nature screws with me all the time. Take that, nature!!!! LOL!!!

FWK · 07-27-14, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eminart

Hawks kill snakes all the time. That's part of nature. You should let nature take its course, because that's how nature works. Hawks that allow themselves to get wrapped up by a constricting snake, may not be the ones nature wants passing on their genes.

I agree with this in principle. Hawks are a part of the natural check and balance on snakes. But this hawk failed to kill its prey and probably deserved to have its genes removed from the pool. However the two were at a stalemate and no good would have come from the encounter. The hawk wasn't going to eat the snake and the snake certainly wouldn't have eaten the bird. Odds are the snake would have let go shortly and been on its way and the hawk may or may not have come to and taken off. So...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGT FROM F.B.

No judgment here. Cool video. I probably would have done the same thing. Nature screws with me all the time. Take that, nature!!!! LOL!!!

I'm with Big T here, I think we over think these things. The only thing I would have done differently is handle the snake a bit after separating them and take some of pictures of the little guy. Separating those two is probably no more detrimental to nature than interrupting the snakes day for half an hour to take pictures of it.

FWK · 07-27-14, 05:58 PM

Alright something about the way the bird appeared to be paralyzed then suddenly sprang to life and flew away was bothering me so I did a little looking. I found several other reports and videos of snake vs hawk encounters and the hawks always showed the same behavior. But I couldn't find any information on hawks playing dead. Anybody heard of such a thing? A snake isn't going to hold on forever, once the constricted bird stops moving the snake will let go and move on. Maybe these birds can play dead to avoid being killed by a snake that is to big to handle?

franks · 07-27-14, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

Alright something about the way the bird appeared to be paralyzed then suddenly sprang to life and flew away was bothering me so I did a little looking. I found several other reports and videos of snake vs hawk encounters and the hawks always showed the same behavior. But I couldn't find any information on hawks playing dead. Anybody heard of such a thing? A snake isn't going to hold on forever, once the constricted bird stops moving the snake will let go and move on. Maybe these birds can play dead to avoid being killed by a snake that is to big to handle?

I have no idea. I've never heard of a bird playing dead, but they are extremely light animals and they do stun very east.

eminart · 07-27-14, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

Alright something about the way the bird appeared to be paralyzed then suddenly sprang to life and flew away was bothering me so I did a little looking. I found several other reports and videos of snake vs hawk encounters and the hawks always showed the same behavior. But I couldn't find any information on hawks playing dead. Anybody heard of such a thing? A snake isn't going to hold on forever, once the constricted bird stops moving the snake will let go and move on. Maybe these birds can play dead to avoid being killed by a snake that is to big to handle?

Well, I'm a licensed falconer, and I have quite a bit of experience with trapping wild red tailed hawks. And I've had daily interaction with my own hawks for the past 3 years.

Two things are at play here:

1. The hawk was probably half asphyxiated and it took a few seconds to recover.

2. Hawks will go into kind of a shock when they're captured and see no escape. They go out of flight mode, and go into this shock-like state where they won't take their eyes off the predator. They sit frozen, wings out, mouth agape, and often limp and on their backs. It's kind of like a frozen threat display. Once the predator backs off a bit, or gives them enough time, they snap out of it, and go back into flight mode - as you saw when this particular hawk flew off.

Here's a photo of a wild hawk that was trapped less than an hour earlier. She's recovered enough to stand on the glove, which sometimes takes a while. They're kind of limp-noodle for a bit. But, you can see she's still just staring me down instead of trying to escape.

franks · 07-27-14, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eminart

Well, I'm a licensed falconer, and I have quite a bit of experience with trapping wild red tailed hawks. And I've had daily interaction with my own hawks for the past 3 years.

Two things are at play here:

1. The hawk was probably half asphyxiated and it took a few seconds to recover.

2. Hawks will go into kind of a shock when they're captured and see no escape. They go out of flight mode, and go into this shock-like state where they won't take their eyes off the predator. They sit frozen, wings out, mouth agape, and often limp and on their backs. It's kind of like a frozen threat display. Once the predator backs off a bit, or gives them enough time, they snap out of it, and go back into flight mode - as you saw when this particular hawk flew off.

Um... who cares about any of that anymore- you are a liscenced Falconer? That is so awesome. How does one get into that?

eminart · 07-27-14, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Um... who cares about any of that anymore- you are a liscenced Falconer? That is so awesome. How does one get into that?

Haha. Well, it's not the easiest sport to get into. You have to find a licensed falconer willing to take you on as their apprentice for two years. You must pass a written exam, and have your facilities/equipment inspected by the USFWS. Your sponsor guides you along with your first bird(s) for at least two years, when you're eligible to upgrade to "general".

It is a life-consuming "hobby". From Oct through March, I take my hawk hunting almost every day. And, there's constant feeding and care through the off season.

FWK · 07-27-14, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eminart

Haha. Well, it's not the easiest sport to get into. You have to find a licensed falconer willing to take you on as their apprentice for two years. You must pass a written exam, and have your facilities/equipment inspected by the USFWS. Your sponsor guides you along with your first bird(s) for at least two years, when you're eligible to upgrade to "general".

It is a life-consuming "hobby". From Oct through March, I take my hawk hunting almost every day. And, there's constant feeding and care through the off season.

Yeah falconry is awesome. I looked into it a few years ago but the level of commitment was just to much for me. That's a hobby I'll never have time for. Unfortunately

So I'm very jealous eminart. The look on your birds face is hilarious by the way. The "shocked" state you describe is interesting, I'll have to do some more studying.

franks · 07-27-14, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eminart

Haha. Well, it's not the easiest sport to get into. You have to find a licensed falconer willing to take you on as their apprentice for two years. You must pass a written exam, and have your facilities/equipment inspected by the USFWS. Your sponsor guides you along with your first bird(s) for at least two years, when you're eligible to upgrade to "general".

It is a life-consuming "hobby". From Oct through March, I take my hawk hunting almost every day. And, there's constant feeding and care through the off season.

That is awesome. Can you post a picture of your bird for us?