Herps you don't think should be kept as pets?

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

GOD said. Genesis 1:26-28

Before going further into this discussion I want to point out it's not my intention to get into religious discussion, but rather my intention is to discuss the facts that support certain claims about humans and their relationship to other animals.


Now that, that's out of the way, could you demonstrate how you know this particular deity said this?

[franks]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Before going further into this discussion I want to point out it's not my intention to get into religious discussion, but rather my intention is to discuss the facts that support certain claims about humans and their relationship to other animals.


Now that, that's out of the way, could you demonstrate how you know this particular deity said this?

I love you Mikoh- but despite your disclaimer this challenge is a bit inflammatory. Whether or not our friends on this forum believe in Jehovah, Allah, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith, anything or nothing, nobody should have to justify their beliefs or explain their religion to you or anyone else here.

The topic at hand:
It hard not to see both sides of this. Personally, I fear government regulations of many kinds because I do not like people telling me how I should live. However like student of reptile said- it's obvious that many people do need regulation. I grew up as a kid in NYC proper and for three summers in a row alligators were pulled out of a local pond by my house that we would all wade in, fish in, and play in. That is not right on different levels, one for the animal, and two for the potential people it can effect. Some people are just plain stupid. It is unfortunate. Some of this is our responsibility as hobbiests. I see many many adds to sell giant snakes, monitors, even gators, and a minute small fraction of these sellers will demand proof of housing of any sort.

[charlesc84]

Okay, I'm late here but I wanna throw my 2 cents in. All I can do is speak for myself, but my animals are healthy. I post pics all the time but nonetheless...






Do they look unhealthy or abused to anyone? Why do we direct so much negativity towards our own hobby?
Now personally, I do not find raising THESE reptiles to be a very difficult task that should be entrusted to the most experienced herpetologist or zoologist.
We can all sit here and talk about what should and shouldn't be regulated, but the people do the regulating DO NOT know the difference between between an Amazon Tree Boa and an Eyelash Viper. For example, how can they be trusted to regulate Retics? Especially with all the different dwarf localities being bred now. I think most of us are okay with REASONABLE regulations, so long as they are done by people in touch with the hobby, and of course what's best for the animals as well. But people who think ball pythons are going to eat your neighbors and kill the family dog are not the ones who be trusted in doing so.
Also, whether we all like or not, there's always going to be people who mistrust and abuse their pets. There's bad seeds in all walks of life... That's why I posted the pics of my animals, to show that we have to think positively and not beat ourselves up over things out of our control.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by franks

I love you Mikoh- but despite your disclaimer this challenge is a bit inflammatory. Whether or not our friends on this forum believe in Jehovah, Allah, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith, anything or nothing, nobody should have to justify their beliefs or explain their religion to you or anyone else here.

Which is why I don't want to have a religious discussion. It will only go that direction if the "other side" chooses to do so. When you have beliefs that will affect other people then one does need to justify their beliefs. Bringing "man has dominion over all creatures" into an argument is not keeping one's beliefs to themselves, and therefore is open to criticism.

No one needs to justify or explain their beliefs to me, until they bring it into the argument. Keep your beliefs to yourself and there is no problem.

edit: It's not inflammatory Frank. It is rational discussion and criticism during an argument.

[franks]

No I understand. That post just kind of slipped it in there lol. Fact is whether you agree that statement is true or believe it to be false- although diametrically opposed both views are representative of a person's belief system and the discussion of them cannot really lead this conversation anywhere but into a religious discussion/argument. There is nothing wrong with that btw, and your question is certainly vital and valid towards the core of that issue. I just feel (as per the sites guidlines) that this is not the place to hold the discussion that would result from attempting to answer that question.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by franks

No I understand. That post just kind of slipped it in there lol. Fact is whether you agree that statement is true or believe it to be false- although diametrically opposed both views are representative of a person's belief system and the discussion of them cannot really lead this conversation anywhere but into a religious discussion/argument. There is nothing wrong with that btw, and your question is certainly vital and valid towards the core of that issue. I just feel (as per the sites guidlines) that this is not the place to hold the discussion that would result from attempting to answer that question.

I guess it's right on the edge of religious conversation... but I really don't think it needs to go that direction. I'll just wait and see Georgia's reply and decide whether or not we can further the discussion without breaking forum rules.

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Which is why I don't want to have a religious discussion. It will only go that direction if the "other side" chooses to do so. When you have beliefs that will affect other people then one does need to justify their beliefs. Bringing "man has dominion over all creatures" into an argument is not keeping one's beliefs to themselves, and therefore is open to criticism.

No one needs to justify or explain their beliefs to me, until they bring it into the argument. Keep your beliefs to yourself and there is no problem.

edit: It's not inflammatory Frank. It is rational discussion and criticism during an argument.

What I believe is my personal choice and I have not pushed it on anyone. A question was asked and I answered it. Asked to back up what my answer was and I did. I can't discuss religion here so this conversation is one sided. Have the Mods remove the restrictions and I will justify what I believe, otherwise the topic should be closed.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

What I believe is my personal choice and I have not pushed it on anyone. A question was asked and I answered it. Asked to back up what my answer was and I did. I can't discuss religion here so this conversation is one sided. Have the Mods remove the restrictions and I will justify what I believe, otherwise the topic should be closed.

I forgot I was responding to two people. For a second i thought it was Georgia(the original proponent) who wrote "god said".

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

I forgot I was responding to two people. For a second i thought it was Georgia(the original proponent) who wrote "god said".

I was the original person who said, God made that statement. Georgia just quoted the statement.

[Georgia]

Like i said...i didnt intend to derail the thread.

Bottomline is this. As with ANYTHING else...give the government an inch and they will take 20 miles.

Those that want restrictions and regulations are playing with fire.
They wont just stop with simple regulations. It will/is evolving into a total ban on ALL reptiles.

[Georgia]

Some may say, "bless god i dont have.any venomous or big snakes, its not gonna affect me, all i got is corn snakes". The big snakes and hots are just the start. What are you gonna do when EVERY reptile is banned? And its illegal to keep a cornsnake or gecko?

All legislation mutates into more...

[red ink]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Some may say, "bless god i dont have.any venomous or big snakes, its not gonna affect me, all i got is corn snakes". The big snakes and hots are just the start. What are you gonna do when EVERY reptile is banned? And its illegal to keep a cornsnake or gecko?

All legislation mutates into more...

They won't ban something they can make money from... hence suggestions of an agreed licensing system. If it cost $20 a year to keep reptiles, then that's a lot of money lining their pocket. It would also pacify their need/desire for governance.

[EL Ziggy]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Some may say, "bless god i dont have.any venomous or big snakes, its not gonna affect me, all i got is corn snakes". The big snakes and hots are just the start. What are you gonna do when EVERY reptile is banned? And its illegal to keep a cornsnake or gecko?

All legislation mutates into more...

What evidence do you have that the government wants to ban all reptiles? Why would they eliminate an international billion dollar enterprise? Do you have facts to support these claims or are these just beliefs based on a general distrust of government? There are a lot of our rights/liberties that are being threatened by government overreach, corruption, ineptitude and inaction, but I don't believe owning harmless reptiles is in jeopardy at all.

[Georgia]

Its simply a theory. But some harmless snake such as a BP is being suggested to be regulated...so why not everything else?

[SSSSnakes]

In NYC Ball Pythons are banned and in NJ to own a Ball Python you need a permit. As far as only banning snakes to make money, my Endangered & Threatened license, Venomous license & Large Reptile license are free. Only my Collect & Possess license cost money. It is not about money, it's about the government controlling us.