Herps you don't think should be kept as pets?

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by jpsteele80

I personally don't think anything but hots should be regulated, it all comes down to common sense, if you cant properly take care of an animal then you shouldn't buy it, it is the owners responsibility to do the research and be able to take care of it.

Hots need to be regulated, but also large snake, such as Rock Pythons and Burms. Lets face the facts, larger snakes have killed family members and friends staying in the same house, were as HOTs normally only injure the owners of the snakes.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

Hots need to be regulated, but also large snake, such as Rock Pythons and Burms. Lets face the facts, larger snakes have killed family members and friends staying in the same house, were as HOTs normally only injure the owners of the snakes.

I am of the opinion larger snakes should be regulated as well.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I agree with hots and large constrictors being regulated as stated in this thread, although I do not agree with banning them. Probably crocodilians and *maybe* large lizards (such as monitors) as well. Just because they can be so much more dangerous, and the average owner may or may not be able to properly maintain, house, and control them. Requiring a license or setting certain rules could potentially rule out many irresponsible owners, although I also worry about such laws becoming stepping-stones for even stricter laws.

[FWK]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I agree with hots and large constrictors being regulated as stated in this thread, although I do not agree with banning them. Probably crocodilians and *maybe* large lizards (such as monitors) as well. Just because they can be so much more dangerous, and the average owner may or may not be able to properly maintain, house, and control them. Requiring a license or setting certain rules could potentially rule out many irresponsible owners, although I also worry about such laws becoming stepping-stones for even stricter laws.

The proverbial head of the nail, you hit it. This is exactly why I so strongly resist anti-herp legislation of any kind. Groups like The Humane Society and PETA are working hard to chip away at our rights to keep animals of any kind, herps and Pit Bulls are their favorite and easiest targets due to public support. They know you don't fell a great tree with one mighty swing of the axe. But with many small swings they hope they can take our rights to keep any pet.

[marvelfreak]

Anacondas! I say this because 99% of the people that get them get rid of them after only a couple years. They are just to aggressive, or to big, or to moody just to name a few repeated excuses i seen over and over. Most anacondas make better display snakes then pets. Unlike me most people don't want a display snake then want something they can take out and show of all the time. So when the realization sits in that they bit off more than they can handle they get rid of them. Most are i see are not house properly or mistreated. It just sad. Out of all the anaconda tons of owners i know on line only less than a dozen still have theirs after a couple years.

[CosmicOwl]

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

Anacondas! I say this because 99% of the people that get them get rid of them after only a couple years. They are just to aggressive, or to big, or to moody just to name a few repeated excuses i seen over and over. Most anacondas make better display snakes then pets. Unlike me most people don't want a display snake then want something they can take out and show of all the time. So when the realization sits in that they bit off more than they can handle they get rid of them. Most are i see are not house properly or mistreated. It just sad. Out of all the anaconda tons of owners i know on line only less than a dozen still have theirs after a couple years.

Anacondas were one of the animals I was thinking of. I think that if you're going to keep the real giants, you need to be willing to give them tons of space and access to water. It seems that a lot of people keep them in enclosures that would make breeding racks seem spacious.

[StudentoReptile]

Interesting question...

First of all, should we define the word "pet?" According to the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), a pet is any animal kept for companionship, loyalty or affection. Reptiles really do not fit any of those criteria (although I'm certain there are many hobbyists out there who will disagree....if you do, there are plenty of threads in this site and others that hash out the debate of whether reptiles actually have affection. Please refrain from doing so here).

Of course, that is one definition. What is a pet, really? Just an animal you possess and own and keep? I'm an ACO (animal control officer) and believe me, its a very subjective term. There's a big difference in the person who has a dog that stays by their side nearly every hour of the day, and is considered a beloved member of the family...and the person who keeps a dog tied up in the yard all day & night, and the only interaction is coming out to give it fresh food and water. Now, IMHO the latter animal is certainly not being treated as a companion animal, is it?
---
Now, we're talking about reptiles, not dogs and cats. Whatever reason you got it for, you are keeping this animal in a box made of glass (or plastic or wood?) for most of its captive life, and it only gets limited time out of this box. It really does not love you. Its not a lapdog. Its not a smart psittacine that will learn words and sentences. Depending on the species, its intelligence level may vary, but compared to mammals and birds, this is not the type of animal one gets if you want companionship or affection. If we're being realistic, keeping herps in captivity is somewhere between aquariums and hamsters (depending on who you ask and your husbandry methods).
---
I'm going to go out on a limb and rephrase the OP's question to say: what herps should not be so readily available to the general public?

I know different states and provinces have different laws. But I think most have said the "big three" already:

• crocodilians
• venomous
• large constrictors

I know a lot of people are against regulations of any kind, but guess what...its coming whether you like it or not. Better to try and get involved with some of the decision making, and hopefully it can be reasonable. Sometimes it is not. But the hobby has shown time and again, it has done a piss-poor job of policing itself. I see many species that have no business ending up in the hands of novices getting purchased for chump change...all in the name of greed.

I even think large lizard species like iguanas and monitors should be regulated, but I know that's going to be a hard sell (especially iguanas).

[CosmicOwl]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Interesting question...

First of all, should we define the word "pet?" According to the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), a pet is any animal kept for companionship, loyalty or affection. Reptiles really do not fit any of those criteria (although I'm certain there are many hobbyists out there who will disagree....if you do, there are plenty of threads in this site and others that hash out the debate of whether reptiles actually have affection. Please refrain from doing so here).

Of course, that is one definition. What is a pet, really? Just an animal you possess and own and keep? I'm an ACO (animal control officer) and believe me, its a very subjective term. There's a big difference in the person who has a dog that stays by their side nearly every hour of the day, and is considered a beloved member of the family...and the person who keeps a dog tied up in the yard all day & night, and the only interaction is coming out to give it fresh food and water. Now, IMHO the latter animal is certainly not being treated as a companion animal, is it?
---
Now, we're talking about reptiles, not dogs and cats. Whatever reason you got it for, you are keeping this animal in a box made of glass (or plastic or wood?) for most of its captive life, and it only gets limited time out of this box. It really does not love you. Its not a lapdog. Its not a smart psittacine that will learn words and sentences. Depending on the species, its intelligence level may vary, but compared to mammals and birds, this is not the type of animal one gets if you want companionship or affection. If we're being realistic, keeping herps in captivity is somewhere between aquariums and hamsters (depending on who you ask and your husbandry methods).
---
I'm going to go out on a limb and rephrase the OP's question to say: what herps should not be so readily available to the general public?

I know different states and provinces have different laws. But I think most have said the "big three" already:

• crocodilians
• venomous
• large constrictors

I know a lot of people are against regulations of any kind, but guess what...its coming whether you like it or not. Better to try and get involved with some of the decision making, and hopefully it can be reasonable. Sometimes it is not. But the hobby has shown time and again, it has done a piss-poor job of policing itself. I see many species that have no business ending up in the hands of novices getting purchased for chump change...all in the name of greed.

I even think large lizard species like iguanas and monitors should be regulated, but I know that's going to be a hard sell (especially iguanas).

In this case, I'd define "pet" as being an animal that you keep for your own enjoyment, rather than educational purpose(though the two could intersect), conservation, or some sort of agriculture purpose(meat, hides, farming etc). I don't think that "pet" is the appropriate term for dogs and cats. They're companion animals, even if people don't treat them that way. They're bonded to humans in a way that other animals are not.

If we're going to rephrase the question, I'd rather go with something like this: "What herps should not be kept for personal enjoyment?"

I suppose I didn't explain in detail in my OP, but the question wasn't really intended to be about regulation of herps, or exotics in general. Instead, I was simply asking people what animals they object to being kept in captivity.

[mistersprinkles]

I feel that if you're eccentric enough to own venomous animals, and one of them bites you, and you go to the hospital, your healthcare provider, be it private or government, should not be liable for the cost of your treatment. It has to come out of your pocket. You got yourself into this mess, you pay your own way out.

I also think that if you have a venomous reptile and it bites somebody else due to your negligence you should be charged with attempted murder.

Venomous reptiles are terrible ideas for pets IMO.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by mistersprinkles

I also think that if you have a venomous reptile and it bites somebody else due to your negligence you should be charged with attempted murder.

It would not be attempted murder.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by mistersprinkles

I feel that if you're eccentric enough to own venomous animals, and one of them bites you, and you go to the hospital, your healthcare provider, be it private or government, should not be liable for the cost of your treatment. It has to come out of your pocket. You got yourself into this mess, you pay your own way out.

I also think that if you have a venomous reptile and it bites somebody else due to your negligence you should be charged with attempted murder.

Venomous reptiles are terrible ideas for pets IMO.

I think that's going a bit far. I agree that venomous aren't necessarily the best choice, but you don't need to be so extreme about it. What if somebody got mauled by their dog? You knew the dog could injure you when you got it, so let's make you pay for your operation(s). If you can't, oh well, not our problem, we'll set up your funeral. Snake owners in general are already stigmatized enough, let's not do the same to members in the same hobby. It reminds me of what asexuals put up with in the LGBT community, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

As far as OP's rephrased question. I don't think the animals I discussed in my previous post should be available to the general public (general public as in anybody can get them regardless of skill, fulfillment of requirements, ability to care for the animal, etc.). Only people who are able to care for them should be able to get them, so I don't think they should vanish completely from private ownership but we should be smarter about it.

[LiL Zap]

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I believe giants, hots and crocodilians should require training, licensing, and regulation.

Took the words right outta my mouth.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by CosmicOwl

I suppose I didn't explain in detail in my OP, but the question wasn't really intended to be about regulation of herps, or exotics in general. Instead, I was simply asking people what animals they object to being kept in captivity.

Again, are you implying captivity PERIOD, which covers zoos, rescues, wildlife rehab centers, nature centers, etc....or just the average private citizen? I'll assume you just mean the latter.

In that case, crocodilians, hands down. Even the smallest species require more space and resources than most can reasonably provide, and realistically, most acquire them for the "cool" factor. Most species of crocodilians are protected in some form or fashion, and the average citizen should not be able to acquire any species.

Each state has their own laws, and I do understand some people have special trapping, gaming or educating licenses to "borrow" from farms or capture WC American alligators temporarily for relocation and for educational use. I don't have an issue with that, because such people are not actually keeping those gators in their homes. But being able to purchase a so-called "dwarf" caiman or Alligator in some of the northern states is ridiculous.

[Pareeeee]

I think that people should be allowed to own the pet they want, but there should be some sort of licencing system to help weed out the irresponsible individuals.

There should be a educational course that everyone has to take before obtaining a licence to own a venomous or giant reptile (ie green anaconda, American alligator).

There should also be regulations, especially for venomous snakes, that ensure that enclosures are secure and the animals cannot escape and endanger others.

Instead of banning ownership of the animals altogether, I wish the government would have the initiative to implement something like what I have described.

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by Pareeeee

There should also be regulations, especially for venomous snakes, that ensure that enclosures are secure and the animals cannot escape and endanger others.

First off I don't think there has ever really been an issue with venomous snakes escaping and killing people. There has been many cases of large snake escaping and killing people. That said, in NY I have to meet strict requirements as to the housing of my venomous snakes. They have to be in enclosures that are locked and labeled with warning signs as well as the snake common and scientific name. They have to be in an escape proof room, that is locked an a sign on the door stating there are venomous snake in the room. The DEC requires that I take pictures of all this and send it in with my license renewal each year.