Reptiles & Emotions

[Sharlynn93]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Love it! Unicorns ARE real!! Lmao!!

[pdomensis]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

ha ha, nice one!

[CosmicOwl]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

All I am saying is, snakes probably do not enjoy being handled... some people think snakes enjoy this the way furry animals enjoy being cuddled. Snakes also probably do not feel love the way humans feel love for eachother. Some people think their snakes "love" them.

Note I use the word probably...because I feel that is the best position to take since I do not have evidence to show that snakes cannot feel these "emotions". If I said snakes definitely do not feel love or enjoy being handled, I feel that would be the equivalent of saying that unicorns definitely do not exist. Unicorns probably do not exist.... and that's my position. It's different from being 50/50 and undecided.

I don't think they enjoy being picked up and molested by a giant, but that isn't always what handling entails. I mentioned it before, but when I'm working on my adult corn snakes enclosure, he will often come to me and try to climb up my arms. It's easy to dismiss that as being coincidence, but think about it from the snake's perspective. He's big enough to easily climb out of the enclosure, yet still tries to climb up me. Why? If he was just trying to flee, wouldn't he go for an area that wasn't being disturbed by a potential predator? I think it is because he is adjusted to me and feels a certain amount of comfort and security from my presence that he doesn't feel from any other avenue of escape. Is that emotion, or has he just learned from experience that I will take him out of the enclosure?

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by CosmicOwl

I think it is because he is adjusted to me and feels a certain amount of comfort and security from my presence that he doesn't feel from any other avenue of escape. Is that emotion, or has he just learned from experience that I will take him out of the enclosure?

That's what I'm saying. I can't know for sure, but I am saying it's probably due to comfort, security, warmth, curiosity..

It could be that he "likes" you in the human sense of the word, but most likely not.

I don't consider snakes going out of their enclosures as escaping...I consider it to be just simply moving or exploring. Like you'd find a wild snake climbing a fence or going over a rock. I don't know why we attribute the act of going out of it's enclosure as escaping. Enclosures are small anyways, so if they are moving and there is an opening, is it escaping or simply just roaming? And when they do get out of their enclosures, aren't you one of the only things that they are used to?(scent, appearance..etc). I see it to be a natural thing that once they get out they want to go the nearest thing that they are comfortable with..which in that case would be the owner.

[poomwah]

I think that's a great example of a snake being comfortable and tolerating being handled.
I personally doubt the snake looks at your arm any differently than a warm branch on which to climb.

[CosmicOwl]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

That's what I'm saying. I can't know for sure, but I am saying it's probably due to comfort, security, warmth, curiosity..

It could be that he "likes" you in the human sense of the word, but most likely not.

I don't consider snakes going out of their enclosures as escaping...I consider it to be just simply moving or exploring. Like you'd find a wild snake climbing a fence or going over a rock. I don't know why we attribute the act of going out of it's enclosure as escaping. Enclosures are small anyways, so if they are moving and there is an opening, is it escaping or simply just roaming? And when they do get out of their enclosures, aren't you one of the only things that they are used to?(scent, appearance..etc). I see it to be a natural thing that once they get out they want to go the nearest thing that they are comfortable with..which in that case would be the owner.

I agree. I think the biggest problem with this discussion is that we can't help but look at things from our mammalian perspective. We unintentionally view emotions like love and affection as being the ultimate expression of emotion, because they are very important part of human relationships.

[poomwah]

That's a really good point Owl, and perhaps, like you said, the biggest problem. I think the other problem is how there's no way for any of us to know for sure, that's the part that bothers me the most

[LiL Zap]

This is a 45 minute documentary about a man who cared for a young crocodile after he was shot by a poacher and now YEARS later, the man and the crocodile have a very strong bond. Please take the time to watch and tell me your thoughts!

Link.

[formica]

Originally Posted by LiL Zap

This is a 45 minute documentary about a man who cared for a young crocodile after he was shot by a poacher and now YEARS later, the man and the crocodile have a very strong bond. Please take the time to watch and tell me your thoughts!

Link.

interesting! will have a watch later.

beyond caring for their young, I was not aware of them forming any other kind of bond....but thats why this discussion is so interesting, it throws up many questions, and forces us to question what we think about humanity and its place ''at the top of the evolutionary table''

[drumcrush]

Originally Posted by LiL Zap

This is a 45 minute documentary about a man who cared for a young crocodile after he was shot by a poacher and now YEARS later, the man and the crocodile have a very strong bond. Please take the time to watch and tell me your thoughts!

Link.

I love watching documentaries, I will have to watch this when I get home

[Sharlynn93]

I watched this with total fascination! such a wonderful story! I will not disclose the spoiler...but this just makes the topic even more "controversial"...a must watch till the end, though...

[natsirtremraf]

When it comes to the human emotion we call "love". Couldn't you argue that this emotion has the same effects as a croc protecting its young? Propogating DNA, and the survival as a species?

IMO, Human "love" comes from our instincts as well. When we fall in love, its our act of pair bonding, breeding, and continued survival. The same goes for loving our kids, our instincts are to care for our kids because its in the interest of our species to survive. Much like the croc protecting their young.

So while we call it "love", both us and them are acting on that same instinctual feeling to care and protect. We as humans are just self aware and try to attach a reason and explanation to everything.

Same for the "liking" someone situation. Whats makes you like some one? Obviously, humans have more complex emotions that complicate this. However, the people that we "like" are most likely the people we trust, and feel comfortable being around and enjoy interecting with. Snakes aren't really social animals though, so the interaction isn't something they care about too much :P.

Just my thoughts.

[LiL Zap]

To everyone who watched the documentary I put a link to, thanks! I hope it changed some of your perceptions on reptiles.

[Herpophiliac972]

I personally do not believe that they have them in the sense that we have them, at the very least not the comprehension of them that we do. I think that they definitely can "feel" fear, but more complicated emotions I just can't say for sure. Happiness, etc., I doubt. It does really annoy me when people say that there is just no way it is possible, they aren't that intelligent, they can't be that intelligent, etc., etc. Humans are so self important. As a species it as if we feel that we are special because we can understand each other, and, for all we know, other animals are the same way. We refuse to believe animals can be as intelligent as we are, and that kind of thinking just annoys me. It is even clearly present in our cultures. Most religions make it seem as if the entire universe was made for humans. I believe that animals at the least can be very intelligent, and can most likely feel at least basic emotions.

[formica]

Originally Posted by Herpophiliac972

we can understand each other

I think that humans misunderstand one another, almost as often as they don't, its a wonder we are able to do anything productive at all imo