Need help tweaking heat for Ball

Sylorna · 02-07-14, 11:26 PM

Hello!
We have a male ball that is approximately 8 months old. We recently moved him from a much too small PVC display case to a glass 30gal glass tank with a wire top.
We are using a heating cord under the aspen to heat the tank. He has 2 hides, a stick to climb on and water available at all times.
He ate his first meal in the tank, but has refused meals since then. We are not sure if he does not like where his tank is now; if the new feeders are too big; if the new feeders just don't smell right (he has always had feeders from the same guy...same stock, but it is no longer available); if he's just being a male ball during the winter; or if he is not warm enough.
I bought a digital thermometer last weekend and covered his lid with tinfoil, as I read on another site that it can keep the heat in better. It certainly keeps the humidity in better. I left the lid without tinfoil so he has some good airflow. If you put the thermometer right up to the aspen on the hot end it reads 94F. If you raise it slightly and take the temp of the air it reads 85-87F. The cool end reads 78F. I'm wondering if we should be looking at A) getting a dimmer switch for the cording so he doesn't accidentally burn...if we do, what temp should I aim for? and B) if we should get a low watt bulb to raise the ambient temp a little higher.
He is still currently using both of his hides regularly and with the exception of the last 2 nights he has been coming out and exploring nightly.

Thanks for your help!

smy_749 · 02-07-14, 11:46 PM

Thermostat

Sylorna · 02-07-14, 11:47 PM

sorry, could you explain?

smy_749 · 02-07-14, 11:51 PM

Don't get a rheostat, and don't get a lamp to heat up the enclosure. Just buy a thermostat, hook up your heat source to it, set it and forget it. I can't comment on why hes not eating, just saying the most reliable way to get desired temps with your heat source.

Sylorna · 02-08-14, 12:01 AM

Ok, that's the type of advice I'm looking for. In terms of the not eating, I figure we just need to negate one variable at a time.
Are all thermostats created equal?
Thanks for your help.

smy_749 · 02-08-14, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylorna

Ok, that's the type of advice I'm looking for. In terms of the not eating, I figure we just need to negate one variable at a time.
Are all thermostats created equal?
Thanks for your help.

Herpstat, vivarium electronics, Helix would be good choices for the upper end of the price range. They are proportional, adjusting the output as opposed to on/off (with exception of the lower models I think ...VE100 or something)
Having the ability to program a Night drop and lights on/off cycles is nice too.

Hygrofarm /Hydrofarm, I dont remember what its called. 35 dollars, On/Off stat, nothing to program except the desired temp. and works pretty good if you have a few degrees of leniency (your not incubating or needing exact temps) and if you aren't using a lamp. It will continue to turn the lamp on and off. Its really annoying and your lamp won't last long.

I have the herpstat and the hygrofarm, I use them both and like them both.

Sylorna · 02-08-14, 12:20 AM

thanks again

Lankyrob · 02-08-14, 03:21 AM

As you have a mesh top tank what is the humidity like?

Mikoh4792 · 02-08-14, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smy_749

Herpstat, vivarium electronics, Helix would be good choices for the upper end of the price range. They are proportional, adjusting the output as opposed to on/off (with exception of the lower models I think ...VE100 or something)
Having the ability to program a Night drop and lights on/off cycles is nice too.

Hygrofarm /Hydrofarm, I dont remember what its called. 35 dollars, On/Off stat, nothing to program except the desired temp. and works pretty good if you have a few degrees of leniency (your not incubating or needing exact temps) and if you aren't using a lamp. It will continue to turn the lamp on and off. Its really annoying and your lamp won't last long.

I have the herpstat and the hygrofarm, I use them both and like them both.

All good suggestions.I too have the herpstat and hygrofarm.

The high end models are nice because they are proportional and have more features(night drop, ramping...etc). The hygrofarm is good because of it's price. Works well but you can still afford it if you are on a budget.

Other decent budget thermostats are bigapple and ranco/johnsons

Sylorna · 02-08-14, 09:50 AM

I have to be honest and say that I do not know what the humidity is exactly. I covered the lid to the tank with tinfoil to help keep the humidity and heat in, leaving a 4"X6" door exposed for air circulation. I could cover it too if I need to. I mist regularly, have water available at all times, (over the heat cord) and have a humidifier set up next to the tank for the house, which is set to 40% at all times.

Everyone: Whenever I do a search for hygrofarm I find stuff for hydrofarm thermostats. They are used for hydroponics, and I see some other people have used them successfully. Do you have any thoughts? Finding stuff like this in Canada can be a bit challenging. Worst case there is another reptile expo in March that I plan on attending.

I'm confused about something though. Everywhere I read, I read that you measure the temp for the thermostats at the source of heat, and you set said heat to the temp you want for the tank. If you do that, the temperature on top of the substrate would be cooler, would it not?
Also: There's a lot of talk about ambient temperatures, which I take to mean the air in the tank. Where do you measure said ambient temp, and if you are in a situation like mine where the air is much cooler than the substrate, do you need to heat the air? (back to the light fixture thing).

Mikoh4792 · 02-08-14, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylorna

I'm confused about something though. Everywhere I read, I read that you measure the temp for the thermostats at the source of heat, and you set said heat to the temp you want for the tank. If you do that, the temperature on top of the substrate would be cooler, would it not?
Also: There's a lot of talk about ambient temperatures, which I take to mean the air in the tank. Where do you measure said ambient temp, and if you are in a situation like mine where the air is much cooler than the substrate, do you need to heat the air? (back to the light fixture thing).

1.You plug the heat source( heat lamp, heat mat, radiant heat panel) to the thermostat.

2. When using a heat mat/heat tape you can tape the probe directly on the heat mat/heat tape, or you can put the probe inside the enclosure on the floor of the cage. When you place the probe directly on the heat source outside the enclosure, you obviously need to set the temp a little higher to get the desired hotspot inside the cage(ie. I set mine to 99F to get a 90F hotspot). When you place the probe inside the enclosure on the floor of the cage you usually set the temp to desired hotspot(ie. set the temp to 90F to get a 90F hotspot).

3.When using an overhead heat source you can place the probe on the floor of the cage, on an elevated perch... basically anywhere. With radiant heat panels I choose to attach the probe on a perch using zip ties. Then I set it to the desired hotspot(ie. 90F)

example:

And you are correct on ambient air temperatures. You can use most thermometers to measure air temps, I like to use accurite thermometers from amazon. And yes, air usually gets cold as it does where i live, I like to use an overhead heat source to heat the air(in my case RHP's)

Sylorna · 02-09-14, 10:43 AM

Ok, so after some searching, I can either order a hydrofarm, which will show in about 10 days or I can go down to the store and get a repti temp. Is one better?
Planning on grabbing a low watt lamp as well.

Mikoh4792 · 02-09-14, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylorna

Ok, so after some searching, I can either order a hydrofarm, which will show in about 10 days or I can go down to the store and get a repti temp. Is one better?
Planning on grabbing a low watt lamp as well.

I'd go with hydrofarm. Instead of a heat lamp, I'd invest in a radiant heat panels.

I noticed you said you were using a glass tank to house him. Screen tops and heat lamps don't mix well for moderate humidity requiring species.

Terranaut · 02-09-14, 12:01 PM

No lamps. Hydrafarms are awesome for the money. Seal the entire lid other than a couple square inches. If you can you might want to consider a tub. Look it up on here. Aquariums are about the worst thing you can keep a ball in.

Sylorna · 02-09-14, 12:21 PM

So how do I increase the ambient temp without a lamp if the substrate is already too hot and I'm having to decrease the temp on that? The hot end is too hot and the cold end is too cold as it stands. What is the issue with putting a red 40watt bulb over the tank to increase the temp 5-10 degrees?

I'll order the hydrofarm to arrive in a week and a half and am going to adjust the cord in the mean time.

As mentioned, I have covered the lid a week ago.

I understand that people do not appreciate glass tanks, and I get it, however, I am trying to make due with what I have and what is available to me. In the future, when we have a house, perhaps I will take the time to create a build on a wooden unit, however I cannot do that until we have a house.