Hands-on handling, positive and negative experience question

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Even if a monitor had been basking at a surface temp of 150f by the time you get to the vet and treatment starts the monitor`s core temp will have dropped significantly and it should be relatively "calm" (unless the vet lived next door, of course, in which case you wait for 30 minutes or so)!
How on earth do they cope with large nervous domestic dogs or cats?
If the animal was deliberately cooled for any length of time (even a few hours) it`s immune system is compromised, how is that in the animal`s best interest?
All the above mentioned maladies as has been stated ARE "husbandry" related.
Vets normally do NOT "dart" sick captive Varanids (shoot them with a dart gun)!?

Would a dart gun even pierce their scales? My guy's been bitten by an adult mouse before, and it didn't do a lick of damage to him- he didn't even react.
How do they restrain komodos when a vet visit is needed? Are you able to 'tranq' in any way a monitor? Just curious .

[V87]

Originally Posted by Toothless

Would a dart gun even pierce their scales? My guy's been bitten by an adult mouse before, and it didn't do a lick of damage to him- he didn't even react.
How do they restrain komodos when a vet visit is needed? Are you able to 'tranq' in any way a monitor? Just curious .

Yep a dart gun would pierce the skin of a rep but the main importance if darting is getting the dart IM and on such a target it is very risky as u don't want to miss and pierce a vital organ ie the abdomen ... Which is easier said than done as the vet alshould always wait for the animal to remain still ...if they were to do anything if the sort the chances are it would more than likey b pole syringed rather than darted. ... And I have never seen a vet dart a reptile of any kind due to these reasons and tranq of any kind is incredibly stressful to the internal organs of a rep and usually isn't done unless under gas ... Most of the time keepers will handle man handle the reptile in question ie a large python or a large lizard or croc

But most nowerdays use target training or crush training so that they can take blood or scan or do what ever is needed without undue stress to the rep in question ... A nik nick down is the last result ... Usually the ailment is dealt with before it gets to this stage ... This is where good enrichment and training is worth it's weight in gold ....

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Toothless

Would a dart gun even pierce their scales? My guy's been bitten by an adult mouse before, and it didn't do a lick of damage to him- he didn't even react.
How do they restrain komodos when a vet visit is needed? Are you able to 'tranq' in any way a monitor? Just curious .

As I said they would never use a dart gun in the first place, but it would be possible to give an injection (not that that would be common either).
Just because your monitor didn`t show much/any reaction to being bitten doesn`t mean he didn`t feel it (if it penetrated the scales he would have).
Some (not all) species have osteoderms (small bony plates) under the dorsal scales, but if my memory serves me, not the African Varanids.

[Toothless]

For vet visits, I would rather handle a 3 foot monster than have him sluggish and cold. Not only would it break my heart to see him like that, but I can't imagine shocking his system would be less stressful than a few minutes of forced handling. I'm sure there may be a situation where the cooling method would have its benefits, but I cannot think of any off-hand.

[Toothless]

Thank you for that information. I had always wondered how they went about it at zoos and such.

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

As I said they would never use a dart gun in the first place, but it would be possible to give an injection (not that that would be common either).
Just because your monitor didn`t show much/any reaction to being bitten doesn`t mean he didn`t feel it (if it penetrated the scales he would have).
Some (not all) species have osteoderms (small bony plates) under the dorsal scales, but if my memory serves me, not the African Varanids.

There was no scale damage- the mouse's teeth didn't pierce through. I do not feed him live food anymore though (this was when he was young) because watching him get bitten scared me.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Toothless

For vet visits, I would rather handle a 3 foot monster than have him sluggish and cold. Not only would it break my heart to see him like that, but I can't imagine shocking his system would be less stressful than a few minutes of forced handling. I'm sure there may be a situation where the cooling method would have its benefits, but I cannot think of any off-hand.

When my Ornate monitor was being treated he was relatively calm throughout, the only time he showed signs of discomfort was when the vet tried to get some blood, he needed to insert the needle 3 or 4 times (into the tailbase). During the scan they said he sat perfectly quietly (I wasn`t allowed in), there were 3 or 4 people in the room with him and he wasn`t familiar with any of them to any great extent. He was 7.5 feet, so I`m sure a relatively small but adult sized Savannah monitor could be handled fairly easily.
Is it stressful, yes of course, but there are times when that`s unavoidable.
One more reason we owe it to them to at least try and gain their "trust" and hopefully we`re able to handle (as in pick up) to some extent.

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by Toothless

There was no scale damage- the mouse's teeth didn't pierce through. I do not feed him live food anymore though (this was when he was young) because watching him get bitten scared me.

It would be similar to the mouse biting your fingernail, perhaps it wouldn`t completely penetrate. You didn`t say which part was bitten?

[BH Varanus]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Even if a monitor had been basking at a surface temp of 150f by the time you get to the vet and treatment starts the monitor`s core temp will have dropped significantly and it should be relatively "calm" (unless the vet lived next door, of course, in which case you wait for 30 minutes or so)!
How on earth do they cope with large nervous domestic dogs or cats?
If the animal was deliberately cooled for any length of time (even a few hours) it`s immune system is compromised, how is that in the animal`s best interest?
All the above mentioned maladies as has been stated ARE "husbandry" related.
Vets normally do NOT "dart" sick captive Varanids (shoot them with a dart gun)!?

Currently the metabolic rate of varanus species is still undergoing new research ( from what I've read; like most of you guys i get my publications free; god bless academia) honestly its species specific. It;s really a circular argument and everyone that has owned any varanid over three years feels they earned the right to assume that their method supersedes anyone else’s. To be honest you can’t blame anyone for feeling that way I’m quite sure we all have the scar or been the victim of projectile feces and we’re all well within our right to say the least. However, mimicking the natural environments is hard as hell and unless you've been to the native country is almost impossible so to know the proper response metabolic responses is hard. Unless, of course you’re reading all the ‘catch and release’ publications that are sporadically written. When I was in Asia I saw monitors walking around at 61 degrees with no problem.
The trick to cooling depending on species is that any animal that is accustom to a particular ambient temp and basking environment will respond differently when sudden changes are made. In Florida niles have been known to totally shut down all movements in the center of roads do to temperature drops. Now call me crazy, but this is not a recorded behavior …lol. Basically what I’m saying is cooling is a less abrasive way to deal with aggressive reptiles. I only deal with aggressive and mistreated monitors (someone has to love them) and rehome them. Cooling has helped me in the quarantine phases and the vet checks. We all know that the word taming and varnus don’t go together we simply build working relationships and partnerships reinforced with food..lol . Cooling is an iffy science to be left to those that need it. I deal with death row monitors and I’m usually their last chance. My ornate took a year and half to calm down and she is just way to aggressive and still won’t even feed if I’m not the one feeding her and that’s why I never rehomed her ( writing a publication on her behavior now). Cooling for vet visits definitely bridged the relationship gap whether I want to admit it or not( she was in bad shape when received her). I always say try the theory, but hey friendly debates are what forums are for.

[mdfmonitor]

I’ve rescued a few over the last few years & got them back on form, I give them what they need & let them get on with it, cuts/ burns (small) will heal themselves in the right set-up!

Weak bones etc & the monitor will have little strength anyway compared to a healthy monitor, most problems can be cured without too much messing about and most will get back on form with a good diet.

But as previously mentioned once taken out of the hot climate they are used to, they soon cool (unless you live somewhere hot), a cool monitor is less of a challenge!

And I wouldn’t advise anyone to cool their monitor generally, some keepers cool there’s over winter (I shall end of this year) but you have reduce the humidity along with the cooling & your monitors have to come from the right part of the world to allow cooling.

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

It would be similar to the mouse biting your fingernail, perhaps it wouldn`t completely penetrate. You didn`t say which part was bitten?

It was on his face. I of course freaked out, but there was no visible damage done. Still scared the poop out of me though.