Bypassing 8' legal limit? - Page 3

**Aaron_S** · 10-29-13, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey209

I was raised that it's not illegal unless you get caught, it's something I follow but with boundaries of course. Does that mean I'm going to go out and illegally purchase large reptiles or hots? Probably not, but if I wanted to I would. I highly doubt that it would make the hobby look bad if someone was caught with a burmese python, they would either tell them to relocate the animal or take it away. I seem to really only hear about people keeping illegal animals when they hoard them, someone is killed or someone has been bitten. A responsible owner is not endangering any neighbors keeping a well contained 8'+ snake.

Oh no? Won't make the hobby look bad?

How about the guy who was illegally keeping snakes in New York? That made quite the stir. 850 snakes. That doesn't make us look like crazy hoarders? How about the fact he was taking disability but yet running a snake business? Yeah that didn't look bad at all.

For giants, how about the guy who had 50 or so all euthanized in British Columbia? All retics. That didn't look like we were once again hoarders?

The point Lori was trying to make is that if I choose to live somewhere based on local laws I shouldn't fear a keeper making a mistake. Plenty of "responsible" keepers make mistakes. This includes other animals like lions and tigers. Would you not say Siegfried and Roy were responsible with their animals in Vegas? Did one not suffer an attack after many many years? It happens. Don't be so arrogant.

EDIT: The REAL responsible keepers don't just think of what they want. They think of the people around them too.

Corey209 · 10-29-13, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Oh no? Won't make the hobby look bad?

How about the guy who was illegally keeping snakes in New York? That made quite the stir. 850 snakes. That doesn't make us look like crazy hoarders? How about the fact he was taking disability but yet running a snake business? Yeah that didn't look bad at all.

For giants, how about the guy who had 50 or so all euthanized in British Columbia? All retics. That didn't look like we were once again hoarders?

The point Lori was trying to make is that if I choose to live somewhere based on local laws I shouldn't fear a keeper making a mistake. Plenty of "responsible" keepers make mistakes. This includes other animals like lions and tigers. Would you not say Siegfried and Roy were responsible with their animals in Vegas? Did one not suffer an attack after many many years? It happens. Don't be so arrogant.

Good points, and from that point of view I completely agree.

RandyRhoads · 10-29-13, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Oh no? Won't make the hobby look bad?

How about the guy who was illegally keeping snakes in New York? That made quite the stir. 850 snakes. That doesn't make us look like crazy hoarders? How about the fact he was taking disability but yet running a snake business? Yeah that didn't look bad at all.

For giants, how about the guy who had 50 or so all euthanized in British Columbia? All retics. That didn't look like we were once again hoarders?

He said UNLESS they are hoarding many of them. Those people were...

I kind of agree with Corey. Is victimless crime, really a crime? I try to follow the law but also moral laws vs written law play a part in my head...

I've done a ton of leg work making sure my hots were legal, and as safe as possible. But if it was a species that occurred right outside my house and was legal to kill but not own, I probably wouldn't be too concerned with them telling me that's a no no.

**Aaron_S** · 10-29-13, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

He said UNLESS they are hoarding many of them. Those people were...

I kind of agree with Corey. Is victimless crime, really a crime? I try to follow the law but also moral laws vs written law play a part in my head...

I've done a ton of leg work making sure my hots were legal, and as safe as possible. But if it was a species that occurred right outside my house and was legal to kill but not own, I probably wouldn't be too concerned with them telling me that's a no no.

No such thing as a victimless crime. If you don't see the victim it doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Legal or not, doesn't take away the risk that's been imposed. Now if I knew they were legal to keep then still decided to move where ever then I have placed myself in that situation.

Real responsible keepers take all things into account. You can't be responsible only doing legal things when you want to. Has to be all the time. I'm speaking to your last analogy.

RandyRhoads · 10-29-13, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

No such thing as a victimless crime.

Who's the victim for not wearing a seatbelt of helmet? Some states it's legal, some not.

What about gambling? Illegal in some states.

Some places homosexuality is a crime.

Proceeding through a broken red light at a deserted country intersection after making sure it is completely safe to do so.

Who's the victim?

Some laws just don't make sense and are victimless. I was not allowed to buy a handgun commemorating my tour of duty in Afghanistan because I was too young to purchase it. It however was the same handgun I had just carried at WAR. Makes a lot of sense. I really wanted it. If I had someone make a straw purchase for me to keep until I was of age, because it was only available for a short time, who would have been the victim? (Never did it, now it's too late...)

**Aaron_S** · 10-29-13, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Who's the victim for not wearing a seatbelt of helmet? Some states it's legal, some not.

What about gambling? Illegal in some states.

Some places homosexuality is a crime.

Who's the victim?

The gay person would be the victim in that instance.

The other two? They already were trying to stop the victims but if you want examples.... If you were illegally gambling then maybe the victim is your family who now has lost everything due to you spending every dime.
Got pulled over for no seatbelt? Maybe the officer gets hit because he had to pull you over? Maybe you've got a warrant out for your arrest and because you've been taken into custody can no longer pick up child/children? Lots of victims.

RandyRhoads · 10-29-13, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

The gay person would be the victim in that instance.

The other two? They already were trying to stop the victims but if you want examples.... If you were illegally gambling then maybe the victim is your family who now has lost everything due to you spending every dime.
Got pulled over for no seatbelt? Maybe the officer gets hit because he had to pull you over? Maybe you've got a warrant out for your arrest and because you've been taken into custody can no longer pick up child/children? Lots of victims.

How is the gay person a victim if it was consensual? You're going to tell him he made a mistake in what he wanted, and it was for his own good?

You're reaching a bit too far with the others. In the case with the officers getting hit sounds like that victimless law they made caused it. Had there not been such a ridiculous law he wouldn't have gotten hit.

If you're going to say POSSIBLY the victim in gambling is someone losing all their money that's their choice. That's like saying it should be illegal to eat certain foods because someone could love them so much they could eat themselves into diabetes or heart failure. Or outlaw video games because they can suck people whole lives up and make them hit bottom.

Bottom line you can't regulate people into a robotic life of what YOU think is best for them.

ErikBush97 · 10-29-13, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

The gay person would be the victim in that instance.

Lol... No... There's no victim. The gay person wouldn't be a victim, they'd be the convict.

Hotchkiss · 10-29-13, 05:28 PM

Are we discussing laws we don't like now? I don't like laws restricting my 2A rights... Not really on topic but I just wanted to contribute to the thread

RandyRhoads · 10-29-13, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotchkiss

Are we discussing laws we don't like now? I don't like laws restricting my 2A rights... Not really on topic but I just wanted to contribute to the thread

Haha sorry derailed.....

MDT · 10-29-13, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Bottom line you can't regulate people into a robotic life of what YOU think is best for them.

I do not disagree with this statement. Actually, in my opinion, we are way over-regulated. However, the reality in our society, we are subject to regulations...most of which are knee-jerk responses and feel-good legislation that really does very little to keep us safe. But...until we can change the regs, we gotta play in boundaries.

RandyRhoads · 10-29-13, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDT

I do not disagree with this statement. Actually, in my opinion, we are way over-regulated. However, the reality in our society, we are subject to regulations...most of which are knee-jerk responses and feel-good legislation that really does very little to keep us safe. But...until we can change the regs, we gotta play in boundaries.

And I get that. For the greater good, public safety.

But if like I said it was illegal to own a snake because if it got out it could bite someone like a neighbor, and that same snake could also be slithering around outside in the neighbors yard anyway because it's native, I wouldn't really care about the law. Not saying I would risk it because frankly I wouldn't want to risk a fine. But would I give a damn about the law, no... I would be doing it out of fear of fine rather than "that's the law"....

Still would love to get that monocled cobra, but I wont. That law makes sense. Wouldn't be fair to neighbors or general public if it got out and bit they could die because it's an exotic with no anti readily available...

**Aaron_S** · 10-29-13, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

How is the gay person a victim if it was consensual? You're going to tell him he made a mistake in what he wanted, and it was for his own good?

You're reaching a bit too far with the others. In the case with the officers getting hit sounds like that victimless law they made caused it. Had there not been such a ridiculous law he wouldn't have gotten hit.

If you're going to say POSSIBLY the victim in gambling is someone losing all their money that's their choice. That's like saying it should be illegal to eat certain foods because someone could love them so much they could eat themselves into diabetes or heart failure. Or outlaw video games because they can suck people whole lives up and make them hit bottom.

Bottom line you can't regulate people into a robotic life of what YOU think is best for them.

I confused the gay one...my bad. I'm not paying attention.

Ridiculous law? Seatbelts SAVE lives. Facts. Proven.
You asked for victims I gave them in situations. I can come up with more but now I'm growing bored lol.

I agree you can't regulate people into a robotic life which is why I don't care if it's legal. If it IS illegal I think the laws should be upheld. No matter if it's silly or not with whatever animal.

exwizard · 10-29-13, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

...I agree you can't regulate people into a robotic life which is why I don't care if it's legal. If it IS illegal I think the laws should be upheld. No matter if it's silly or not with whatever animal.

I agree with this, which is why I have a permit. It's a Des Moines ordinance and since I live in Des Moines, I have to have one to keep some snakes I have.

rhiannon79 · 10-29-13, 07:48 PM

Laws are great when there real laws I mean we are spose to be free american's but yet everyday they come up with new laws to restrict our freedom and and all hies back to its whats best as if we aren't allowed to decide for ourselves what is best I understand some of these laws might save lives but when u start giving them permission to dictate ur lives because its what they feel is best where does that stop when is it to far of a attack of ur freedom sorry I'm ranting now I'll quit