what would you be willing to pay? - Page 6

formica · 10-09-13, 08:49 AM

some peoples costing for a good plastic enclosure with full setup are wildly optimistic lol i think £500 is far more reasonable for this kind of setup, considering all the parts included

my suggestions regarding the controllers, would be to first offer setups without these features, get some business going with the enclosure itself, this will reduce the potential problems you may face, espcially with software and hardware which is new, offer the controllers seperatly, its much easier and cheaper to replace/repair/send than a hole enclosure - once the controllers have some milage on them, and most of the bugs ironed out and solved, then its worth offering the full package...there will be bugs, no matter how good your brother and his software engineers are! all it will take is a few problems with a few units and u will have significant damage control to do for your brand

Terranaut · 10-09-13, 09:07 AM

Great advice. I have found a supplier for a touch screen controller at less than $60/unit and coupled with some of the other control devices I havesourced I should be able to offer high quality temp/humidity control for a very good price. My goal is to make it so the customer gets it home, adds some substrate, sets day/night lihhting,hot side/cool side temps as well as humidity, waits 24hrs and then adds the snake. The only adjustments after initial setup will be where to set up decor or plants.

formica · 10-09-13, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Great advice. I have found a supplier for a touch screen controller at less than $60/unit and coupled with some of the other control devices I havesourced I should be able to offer high quality temp/humidity control for a very good price. My goal is to make it so the customer gets it home, adds some substrate, sets day/night lihhting,hot side/cool side temps as well as humidity, waits 24hrs and then adds the snake. The only adjustments after initial setup will be where to set up decor or plants.

as you are going down the software root, you could add (adjustable) presets for all the major species, make it even simpler to use

Terranaut · 10-09-13, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

as you are going down the software root, you could add (adjustable) presets for all the major species, make it even simpler to use

I had even considered having the environment set by area of theworld you are mimicking. Including winter average temp drops.

B_Aller · 10-12-13, 11:00 AM

Just a quick heads up from someone who has gone down this road many times and owned two separate reptile enclosure businesses.
You will never cover your costs and make a profit unless you can charge 3X what it costs you in time and materials. The public will not buy enclosures that are priced this way, you will lose money.
Patents are worthless for this type of product, minimum cost for acquiring a patent is $8 K USD. all anyone has to do to copy you is change one color or angle, not worth it.
I set up large scale environmental controls for large and small zoo exhibits and am very familiar with the products and cost associated, I'd suggest that you re-think your approach and costs.
Don't forget that to sell products in the U.S you will need a barrage of permits, licenses and insurance. Any product sold in the U.S that has a plug needs to be UL listed, this is NOT cheap, think thousands of dollars. You will also need E and O insurance (errors and omissions) if you are designing and selling your product in the U.S
I'd suggest building one prototype for yourself and then seeing what the market will bear.
I'd love to see some new innovative enclosure designs hit the market, but I can tell you that it is near impossible to make a living building reptile enclosures, herpers just don't care about husbandry that much, the market is driven by novelty, not care.
I now make my living working for zoo's as they aren't spending their own money, they have a budget for enclosures/exhibits. The herp trade is a minefield for any cage building company.
Cages by design sucks the big one. Check out one in person and give the panels a little push and you will see what I mean.
Good luck.
Ben Aller

LarryS · 10-12-13, 03:52 PM

Is it really required that an electrical product have UL listing? I don't think RBI has this on their RHP do they?

Just curious.

C5Chris · 10-19-13, 11:36 PM

Yes it is. In Canada you need either UL or CSA approval.

The design sounds pretty cool though. I have been thinking of building my own custom enclosure for my two BRB's (although in the form of a nice wooden cabinet with two enclosures on top of one another) and have been pondering the same variables. Custom heat/humidity control, day/night control, large water reservoir, etc.

I am curious on your energy consumption claims though, as that is a big question mark (and bonus!!) in my mind, and a pretty sweet option if you can do it. I assume it has to do with how the cages are insulated.

However, I realize I won't really be able to program any of that stuff so would probably end up going with decent store bought control packages and just re wiring everything into one plug.

I hope you prototype works out, I am really interested to see it. As far as the whole business model of it goes I think it would be a nightmare jumping through legal hoops to sell them legitimately as a business.

Now as to answer the original question, I spent $250 on my enclosure alone, and that was on sale. Heating pads or heat tape, plus thermostats either store bought or home made would be probably another $100, plus your humidity control, light control.. I would say in Canada, you couldn't find anything like that for $450 or less. Personally, I happen to have a bit more money than most young people with pets and don't mind spending the money to provide the best for my pets.
So myself I would say anywhere between $4-700 is reasonable for a retail price on a fully plug and play enclosure, one stop shop enclosure with a decent warranty and top notch looks and quality all around. However, I don't see them being a big seller at that price, enough to make a living off anyways.

Terranaut · 10-20-13, 07:24 AM

Anyone who has a Pro Products RHP....is there a CSA or UL sticker on it? No there is not. Why not? Because they do not come with the male plug end attached. Not an electrical device until this part is added. Same with Flexwatt. You make the connection and not the manufacturer. I have seen people wiring up Flexwatt for people at expos and wondered if they ever realized the potential liability. I have been looking at modifying my design slightly to make it a "kit" for ease of shipping but this may also be the only way to avoid expensive safety approvals.

B_Aller · 10-20-13, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Anyone who has a Pro Products RHP....is there a CSA or UL sticker on it? No there is not. Why not? Because they do not come with the male plug end attached. Not an electrical device until this part is added. Same with Flexwatt. You make the connection and not the manufacturer. I have seen people wiring up Flexwatt for people at expos and wondered if they ever realized the potential liability. I have been looking at modifying my design slightly to make it a "kit" for ease of shipping but this may also be the only way to avoid expensive safety approvals.

You said you were designing and building a "plug and Play" type enclosure, that suggests you will be providing a plug.
You are in for a lot of heartache if you are trying to sell enclosures for $400-$700, you will lose your shirt. Sorry, but I've been there, done that, the reptile trade is fueled by novelty, not husbandry.
I think a reasonable cost for a real set up would be around $2,000-$7,000. USD. Personally I don't touch anything for less than $5,000. effectively scarring off 99.9% of hobbyists (thank god!)
Best of luck.
Ben

Mikoh4792 · 10-20-13, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Aller

You said you were designing and building a "plug and Play" type enclosure, that suggests you will be providing a plug.
You are in for a lot of heartache if you are trying to sell enclosures for $400-$700, you will lose your shirt. Sorry, but I've been there, done that, the reptile trade is fueled by novelty, not husbandry.
I think a reasonable cost for a real set up would be around $2,000-$7,000. USD. Personally I don't touch anything for less than $5,000. effectively scarring off 99.9% of hobbyists (thank god!)
Best of luck.
Ben

Your enclosures are 5k+?? Do you have any pics of these enclosures? What takes up most of the cost? And are these only for your monitors or do you spend just as much on your snakes?

Terranaut · 10-20-13, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_Aller

You said you were designing and building a "plug and Play" type enclosure, that suggests you will be providing a plug.
You are in for a lot of heartache if you are trying to sell enclosures for $400-$700, you will lose your shirt. Sorry, but I've been there, done that, the reptile trade is fueled by novelty, not husbandry.
I think a reasonable cost for a real set up would be around $2,000-$7,000. USD. Personally I don't touch anything for less than $5,000. effectively scarring off 99.9% of hobbyists (thank god!)
Best of luck.
Ben

I appreciate your honesty here. Thanks.

B_Aller · 10-20-13, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Your enclosures are 5k+?? Do you have any pics of these enclosures? What takes up most of the cost? And are these only for your monitors or do you spend just as much on your snakes?

I own a naturalistic fabrication company that specializes in animal exhibits and enclosures. I design and build enclosures for all types of animals, from Aardvarks to varanids.
We work in Zoo's and aquariums all over the country.
I generally don't deal with the public and don't advertise to them or hobbyists, and don't want to be seen as trying to advertise my company here, but I'm sure if you tried you could figure out my company name, website, facebook, twitter feeds etc. I have lot's of galleries and posts about my work. In fact I'm launching our newly redone website tonight.
Perhaps you could ask Wayne, he follows me and my company.
Best.

B_Aller · 10-20-13, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terranaut

I appreciate your honesty here. Thanks.

Thanks, really not trying to be discouraging, I applaud your drive and effort, just ended up penniless several times trying to sell to the hobby.
I wish you all the best.
B

formica · 10-21-13, 03:39 PM

A good business plan is the key to making a profit, without it you are just throwing time and money into the wind, esp when the product is available in so many different forms, to suit virtually every budget. The reptile enclosure market is huge, but saturated, which makes it doubly important to plan and research properly

LarryS · 10-22-13, 05:58 PM

Terranaut, can't wait to see your prototype.

I build cages as well, but it is more of a hobby than a business. I can't tell you how much enjoyment I get working in the shop making things that other people can enjoy.

To tell the truth, at this point I have spent a lot more money than I have made but every dollar was worth it. I will be in the black eventually.
If you are not doing this as a main source of income, and you can afford the initial outlay, then why not. Many small but important advances have been made by people out working in the garage.

If you are planning on quitting your day job to make a living off of cage building then yes, I would have a well thought out business plan in place and written goals withing reach. And have a back up plan or two. Or three.....

Ben your stuff is amazing.