Lets try this again...here are my pets - Page 2

Amadeus · 07-12-13, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyx

Not pandering to the lowest common denominator isn't elitism; it's common sense.

Apparently advice has been given. Why throw good after bad?

Could you point out the usable advice? Not just something like "make it better" but actual advice on improving the setups? You can't because none was given.

For someone with common sense like yourself you'd think you'd understand what a denominator is.

KORBIN5895 · 07-12-13, 01:14 PM

The op was already told it wasn't a good idea and he ignored it.

slowhite03 · 07-12-13, 02:23 PM

I didn't ignore it, if you would have read my original post i said he is on carpet because aspen is to dusty and he was having trouble breathing. Sorry if i put my snakes health first. he has been on carpet for about 3 months and is perfectly healthy. When he poops I clean it off and give them a thorough cleaning every month just like you're supposed to.

**lady_bug87** · 07-12-13, 03:49 PM

Nice try.

I remember that thread. And more than one gave you cost effective, naturalistic looking alternatives to that bacteria farm.

slowhite03 · 07-12-13, 03:53 PM

Yes they did but every thing mentioned was dust prone. So nice try in starting an argument

**EL Ziggy** · 07-12-13, 03:55 PM

Not trying to meddle but is the issue the repticarpet that's being used or were there other errors with the op's husbandry? Again, I'm only asking because my set ups are very similar except I do use aspen which I guess the op's snake had issues with. Just trying to make sure I'm not doing anything that would harm my pets.

B_Aller · 07-12-13, 04:23 PM

Don't have much time but I'll try and address some of these issues.
Most importantly for the people who are unfamiliar with modern husbandry,.
A brief synopsis of the basic tenets of modern reptile husbandry.
Open topped or screen topped enclosures are a huge no no, they are never o.k for reptiles, ever (amphibians, o.k but not reps). Enclosures must be solid topped with the lights inside, any ventilation (if offered) should be at substrate level. Bulb guards can be used for snakes but never for lizards.
Here's why:
Reptiles are designed to retain both heat and humidity, they are not designed to be constantly replenished with fresh water, they are all about moisture retention. Screen tops allow all of the humidity to attach to heat and rise out of the enclosure, dehydrating the animal. A fish tank with a screen top will not hold any humidity, check out a meat dehydrator, seriously, google it up. Imagine what your organs would look like and feel like if you lived your whole life in a meat dehydrator! Not fun. The fact that many of these reps don't perish quickly is not a testament to these types of set ups being acceptable, it's a testament to how amazing their ability is to weather harsh conditions and hide stress and disease.
Next up, thermal gradient.
The idea behind modern husbandry is to give the animals MORE than they need not less and allow them to be animals. meaning, you should be offering a few degrees higher temps than needed and a few degrees lower than needed, both MUST be available AND the animal must not be forced to choose between optimum temp and security( more on this later)
So for these types of animals say 100-110F hot side, 60-65F cool side.
Ambient temps are worthless to reptiles, surface temps are all that matters.
Then we get to substrate.
Earth, dirt, sandy loam, leaflitter, these are acceptable substrates. When you go out and look for reptiles in the wild do you see them everytime? No. Why? because they live inside of something (usually the ground) they do this for security and to retain moisture.
Substrate should be able to hold a burrow, should allow the animal to get inside it, they need to be able to use their hides to help retain moisture.
Now, one other very important aspect of modern husbandry is that the enclosure you keep your reptile in is not it's home...it's it's environment or habitat and it MUST have multiple homes within its habitat (that whole choosing thing).
So.... in a nutshell, no open tops, big thermal gradient, deep substrate, and a home....seems pretty simple to me and guess what? It works.
Now for Amadeus, if trying to improve the lives of reptiles in captivity is "elitist", I can live with that label. I'm not a fan of keeping it stupid, I'd like to elevate the conversation.
As far as a back handed slap at the forum (forget who said it), I'm new here I didn't know the history, but if this was already gone over shouldn't you be happy that others are agreeing with you? Wouldn't this just be one more voice of reason chiming in? Why do you think a knee jerk reaction is productive or adds to the conversation?
I'm not trying to be a jerk or start fights, but this type of husbandry is why we have such a huge threat to our hobby, this is not O.K and needs to be pointed out.
Fish tanks are for fish. screen tops are a death sentence for reptiles. repticarpet is unacceptable.
Sorry I don't have time for more.
Thanks.
Ben

slowhite03 · 07-12-13, 04:26 PM

Repti carpet is fine, I have 3 sheets. When they poop, I hose it off and let it air dry. Every couple of weeks I clean them with wipe out. The critics are going to say it spreads bacteria but my counter argument to that is when they spot clean there tanks do they get every ounce of poop/pee? I doubt it. So no matter what substrate you get, bacteria is bound to be there

slowhite03 · 07-12-13, 04:28 PM

About this open top, that all depends on where you live. My humidity is a constant 40-60%. Both my snakes have complete sheds.

B_Aller · 07-12-13, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhite03

About this open top, that all depends on where you live. My humidity is a constant 40-60%. Both my snakes have complete sheds.

This is a lame excuse and shows you don't comprehend the animals or their environment. I don't care where you live, under a heat lamp with a screen top you will not have humidity. Don't get all mad at me, take a second to breathe and think, then do some research, you will find this info has been around and trying to get through to the masses for over 40 years.
Screen tops are a death sentence, period.

smy_749 · 07-12-13, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhite03

About this open top, that all depends on where you live. My humidity is a constant 40-60%. Both my snakes have complete sheds.

Just because humidity in your area of the country is 40 - 60 , doesn't mean inside the enclosure it will be. Its an enclosed space, and the lamp heats the air, and it rises out, constantly. The air flow is up and out of the top. Get two identical humidity gauges and put one in a different room, and one in your enclosure and let me know if they are the same..

**lady_bug87** · 07-12-13, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhite03

Yes they did but every thing mentioned was dust prone. So nice try in starting an argument

Newspaper
Paper towel
Craft paper
Ceramic tile
Top soil
Coco husk

All of these are substrates which were recommended they produce minimal /no dust and they are fairly inexpensive not to mention better than that disgusting bacteria farm. If you weren't so lazy and actually bothered to have a proper environment this wouldn't be an issue.

I don't need to try and start arguments with you. I have people to do that for me.

**Aaron_S** · 07-12-13, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhite03

Repti carpet is fine, I have 3 sheets. When they poop, I hose it off and let it air dry. Every couple of weeks I clean them with wipe out. The critics are going to say it spreads bacteria but my counter argument to that is when they spot clean there tanks do they get every ounce of poop/pee? I doubt it. So no matter what substrate you get, bacteria is bound to be there

I use tubs. I can easily wipe out every tub I have, every time. In fact I am prone to using a handheld steamer to ensure I get in the corners.

You are wrong.

slowhite03 · 07-12-13, 05:16 PM

I had no idea I was going to have to defend myself but whatever. Sorry I didn't mention because I thought it would be understood that I was talking about the tank humidity but I forgot I was dealing with people who just want to argue. I did the paper towels. I did paper towels but as you must of read seeing how you researched everything I've posted, I didn't like the seams so I wanted a solid piece. Anymore arguments

Lankyrob · 07-12-13, 05:25 PM

If you want a solid piece in the tank then use butchers paper, it comes in big rolls, tear a piece to fit the tank, then bin it when dirty. All the benefits of carpet but no bacteria farm