Please Help - Cat Bullying

[Nataku]

Originally Posted by formica

there is not need to electrocute cats either! OMG.

Try on an electronic collar. Its not electrocuting them. Its not a shock. Frankly I'd be fine with them if they were just because I dislike cats that much, but e-collars just aren't that kind of device. Sadly.

They are an effective training tool. People who detract from them simply need to educate themselves more on the matter. They aren't cruel, they aren't abusive - leaving one cat to steadily torment another cat and cause it to wither away from stress and a host of injuries which will likely eventually become infected on the other hand...

[formica]

Originally Posted by Nataku

Try on an electronic collar. Its not electrocuting them. Its not a shock. Frankly I'd be fine with them if they were just because I dislike cats that much, but e-collars just aren't that kind of device. Sadly.

They are an effective training tool. People who detract from them simply need to educate themselves more on the matter. They aren't cruel, they aren't abusive - leaving one cat to steadily torment another cat and cause it to wither away from stress and a host of injuries which will likely eventually become infected on the other hand...

its exactly because you dont like cats that you consider them to be ok. a shock is electrocution, inflicting pain is an archaic form of training which does more damage to an animal than positive reinforcement - its the very reason that some dogs can switch from being sweet and kind to ripping a childs face off without provocation. basic psychology, this kind of training has been understood to be damanging for at least the last 20 years

[sweatshirt]

I saw this one book called "Cat Vs. Cat: Keeping Peace When You Have More Than One Cat", that explains about cat behavior in pairs/groups.. you should check it out.

[Abraxxos]

World's Smartest Cat Performs Amazing Tricks! - YouTube Cats CAN be trained....

[smy_749]

Im training my kittens as we speak and its working surprisingly well. They chew my wires and my library which is currently just stacks of books on the floor since I havent bought any bookcases. Anyways Idk if it was mentioned , keep a spray bottle handy and spraying when they misbehave is working well for me. Just dont overdue it and spray for everything

[Nataku]

Originally Posted by formica

its exactly because you dont like cats that you consider them to be ok. a shock is electrocution, inflicting pain is an archaic form of training which does more damage to an animal than positive reinforcement - its the very reason that some dogs can switch from being sweet and kind to ripping a childs face off without provocation. basic psychology, this kind of training has been understood to be damanging for at least the last 20 years

Incorrect. But thank you for assuming.
I have used e-collars for training dogs to great effect, and have seen their results when used in training cats. That is why I consider them okay. I have also put them on myself before ever putting them on any animal to ensure that the stimulation it provides is acceptable. It is not a shock. On the low levels I can't even feel it. At the highest settings it causes a muscle twitch. At no point on me did it cause any 'shock' or actual feeling of any kind of 'pain' whatsoever.

[formica]

not incorrect at all, my opinion is based on decades of training cats without ever having to resort to negative reinforcement. You may well have used negative reinforcement to train animals, and of course it works, but that does not take away from the fact it has been proven to be damaging, and is no longer an accepted method of training animals amongst proffesional trainers.

[Lankyrob]

We were brought up with negative reinforcement training for our animals, it was how my dad was taught to do it in the 1950's. Our dogs were always obedient but slightly cowed, our cats never responded to name or commands.

When i moved into my own place and got my own animals i read around and tried positvie reinforcement, my animals were trained in a quarter of the time and respond to more commands. My cats will come when i call their name, will "talk" for a treat and are extremely friendly and cuddly.

[Abraxxos]

Originally Posted by formica

its exactly because you dont like cats that you consider them to be ok. a shock is electrocution

This is an incorrect and prejudice statement. I love dogs. I consider e collars to be more than okay. You do not have to despise an animal to think something is okay. Who said these were shock collars? Nataku said electronic collar. You took this and assumed she meant a shock collar. I play piano. Electronic keyboard do not shock me. Electronic does not mean electrocuting. A lot of e collars vibrate or make a sound.

Originally Posted by formica

not incorrect at all, my opinion is based on...

There. Opinion. An opinion itself cannot be correct or incorrect as it is an opinion - conjecture. My opinion is that e collars are fine. That is not an incorrect opinion. It is simply an opinion you don't happen to like.

E collars aren't negative reinforcement guys. E collars aren't painful. It's just annoying. A dog can be trained with huge success in 2 weeks with an e collar. Well enough that the dog can walk and keep heel off leash without darting.

Everybody is so anti-negativity and I can understand that but all things in the world and life itself require a balance of negative and positive, dark and light, yin and yang. Without shadow there is no light and without negative reinforcement there is no positive reinforcement. They never understand the difference between good and bad and I have seen way too many times training dogs myself (I train service dogs. I'm not just a person talking. I do have legitimate experience) constant positive reinforcement and only constant positive reinforcement will negatively affect your training. It is life there is always a negative even if you cannot yet see it. Disagree with me if you will but some of the most successful dog trainers use e collars. Try one on yourself. They do not hurt.

[formica]

no, it is not conjecture, it is backed up with scientific research. the same scientific research says that you are wrong, you can be of the opinion that the scientific research is wrong, but then theres no point even having this discussion.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by formica

its exactly because you dont like cats that you consider them to be ok. a shock is electrocution, inflicting pain is an archaic form of training which does more damage to an animal than positive reinforcement - its the very reason that some dogs can switch from being sweet and kind to ripping a childs face off without provocation. basic psychology, this kind of training has been understood to be damanging for at least the last 20 years

noooopppee electrocution means death by electric shock.

Electrocution - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

[formica]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

noooopppee electrocution means death by electric shock.

Electrocution - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

you do not have to die to be electrocuted, you simply have to pass an electric current thru the body - that dictionary is wrong, try the oxford dictionary.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by formica

you do not have to die to be electrocuted, you simply have to pass an electric current thru the body - that dictionary is wrong, try the oxford dictionary.

HAHAHAHAH he says the dictionary is wrong.....

Sounds like all of your arguments just lost a lot of validity.

[formica]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

HAHAHAHAH he says the dictionary is wrong.....

Sounds like all of your arguments just lost a lot of validity.

look it up in the Oxford Dictionary mate, the official refrence for the english language i already have, but i'll give you the pleasure of doing it for yourself

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by formica

look it up in the Oxford Dictionary mate, the official refrence for the english language i already have, but i'll give you the pleasure of doing it for yourself

Wow you are still wrong.
electrocute: definition of electrocute in Oxford dictionary - American English (US)