Building Bud and Cloud's permanent enclosures

[bigsnakegirl785]

We've finally started working on Bud and Cloud's enclosures. We've had the wood for several days, but it's been raining pretty much non-stop. Our yard was flooded, and still squishes like a sponge when you walk across it.

Both cages will be 6 feet long, 3 feet tall, and 2 feet wide. It's a bit big for ball python, but I couldn't talk my dad out of it. I'm not too worried, because I know he will use every inch of it, as his old cage was about as big, and used all the floor space and would climb if I provided branches, every day. I'll just give him some extra hides. My dad is leaving the decorating to me, so any decoration ideas would be awesome, as I've never done anything like this. I know I'm going to put branches in it, and maybe a shelf.

Day 1:
We cut the plywood and framing for the first cage, and we were able to cut and put together the first box. All it's missing is the door and the lip for the bottom edge. We were thinking about making both of them swinging doors. The enclosures will be on top of each other in my room, with top swinging down and the bottom swinging up. Once we treat the wood and let it air out, and then put together the second cage and treat it, we will bolt both of them to a frame in my room. Then, we can put the RHP's and fluorescent lights in, and decorate them.

The back and bottom, before we stood them right side up.


Side view of the back and bottom.


The back and bottom right side up, with the framing cut and ready to be placed.


With the left side wall secured into place.


End of Day 1! The first box put together.

[Mikoh4792]

Awesome. Your dad also keeps reptiles? That's cool, I wish my parents were that way.

I wouldn't say it's too big at all. As long as out fill it up with things it will be great. Good luck.

[brylecc1989]

That's going to be one happy Royal

[bigsnakegirl785]

Haha, no, but he used to. Kinda feel bad for them, because he doesn't any clue how to keep them now, so I doubt he did then. They ended up freezing solid when my mom and dad went on vacation, because the person renting them their trailer refused to fix the power and heat in the trailer. I think that was either the year I was born, or a year before. And thanks for the luck.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by brylecc1989

That's going to be one happy Royal

Yeah, he loves his space. As it is, he wrecks his tub every night. I've started only putting a little water in his bowl, because he just flips it upside down that night. I wake up with his hides and water dish flipped over and deep ridges in the bedding or all of it to one side. lol He does this, even if he just ate. I gave him a rat that was half-way between a large and medium one time, and he was still up and about wreaking havoc that night. I won't do that again, though, because he barely got it down. And he's just as much trouble when I bring him out. lmao

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Haha, no, but he used to. Kinda feel bad for them, because he doesn't any clue how to keep them now, so I doubt he did then. They ended up freezing solid when my mom and dad went on vacation, because the person renting them their trailer refused to fix the power and heat in the trailer. I think that was either the year I was born, or a year before. And thanks for the luck.

EDIT:


Yeah, he loves his space. As it is, he wrecks his tub every night. I've started only putting a little water in his bowl, because he just flips it upside down that night. I wake up with his hides and water dish flipped over and deep ridges in the bedding or all of it to one side. lol He does this, even if he just ate. I gave him a rat that was half-way between a large and medium one time, and he was still up and about wreaking havoc that night. I won't do that again, though, because he barely got it down. And he's just as much trouble when I bring him out. lmao

Constant moving around could be a sign that either temps or humidity are slightly off. My ball is usually pretty lethargic for at least a day after a big meal then slowly she starts cruising and coming out of her hides a little.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I think it's mostly him just being hungry, he's a very problematic feeder. He's picky in what food item he eats and sometimes he just doesn't want to eat. I've started keeping his tub cooler, though, and now he pretty much sticks to his hides after a meal. But once he's done, he's exploring again. He came out during the day every once in awhile before, but now he strictly comes out at night, unless he's getting something to drink, or I disturb him. I'm trying to get him back on rats, but he just refuses to eat them now, and it's difficult to get enough mice to fill him up, so he digests them quickly. He still destroys his cage, but he takes rests. His basking spot was at 90F, but I brought it down to 85F because he was burning off what little he ate so quickly between his activity and the heat. Luckily, because I did this, he's gained some weight in the last month or so. Is 85F still too hot? Or should I continue with it and see how he acts in his new enclosure?

As far as the cage decorating for him goes, what would be the best way to take up space with the least amount of materials? I can't seem to find any decently-spread plants around here, or even vines, but I could squeeze out some money and buy online if I need to. Unless I could use some of the bamboo growing around here? Just get the thinner stalks with lots of leaves, and overlap them or something. If I was more experienced with arts and crafts, I might make stuff out of styrofoam, but I'm just not very artsy and I'm afraid I'd waste a lot of material.

[smy_749]

you should have left it 90 and add an 85. Im a bit suprised your unhappy that he basks, burns it off as you say, so you lowered the temps. If he was using it and digesting quickly, Im missing the negative aspect...? You should have been pleased that he was metabolising so quickly , it means hes growing and healthy. Dont lower the temps to make it last....:-/

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

I think it's mostly him just being hungry, he's a very problematic feeder. He's picky in what food item he eats and sometimes he just doesn't want to eat. I've started keeping his tub cooler, though, and now he pretty much sticks to his hides after a meal. But once he's done, he's exploring again. He came out during the day every once in awhile before, but now he strictly comes out at night, unless he's getting something to drink, or I disturb him. I'm trying to get him back on rats, but he just refuses to eat them now, and it's difficult to get enough mice to fill him up, so he digests them quickly. He still destroys his cage, but he takes rests. His basking spot was at 90F, but I brought it down to 85F because he was burning off what little he ate so quickly between his activity and the heat. Luckily, because I did this, he's gained some weight in the last month or so. Is 85F still too hot? Or should I continue with it and see how he acts in his new enclosure?

As far as the cage decorating for him goes, what would be the best way to take up space with the least amount of materials? I can't seem to find any decently-spread plants around here, or even vines, but I could squeeze out some money and buy online if I need to. Unless I could use some of the bamboo growing around here? Just get the thinner stalks with lots of leaves, and overlap them or something. If I was more experienced with arts and crafts, I might make stuff out of styrofoam, but I'm just not very artsy and I'm afraid I'd waste a lot of material.

Best way to cover space with least amount of materials is obviously big materials. Big logs, big rocks, big caves, big water bowl...etc

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by smy_749

you should have left it 90 and add an 85. Im a bit suprised your unhappy that he basks, burns it off as you say, so you lowered the temps. If he was using it and digesting quickly, Im missing the negative aspect...? You should have been pleased that he was metabolising so quickly , it means hes growing and healthy. Dont lower the temps to make it last....:-/

That is because he's full grown, he's almost 7 years old, and he was getting really skinny. His skin hung loose, and his body was pyramid-shaped. Now he's starting to put on some weight, slowly but surely. At his size (3ft 7in) I shouldn't be able to touch my fingers together wrapping them around him. My hands are really tiny. Unfortunately, he only really seems to eat when I give him mice. He'll eat as many as I offer him. He won't touch a rat of any size, and he hadn't been fed mice in years, until he stopped eating this time. I guess I can bring it back up when I get him into the new enclosure, so he has more options to thermoregulate.

Here's a question for anyone who can answer: would it be best just to give him enough mice each feeding, or continue giving him a mouse with a f/t rat snuck in behind it? I can start breeding mice if I stick to just feeding him mice.

Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Best way to cover space with least amount of materials is obviously big materials. Big logs, big rocks, big caves, big water bowl...etc

Don't ball pythons prefer small spaces? That seems like it would stress him out if I made them too big. I have a big Tupperware box I can use for his water dish, it's plenty big enough. I am also going to be putting branches/logs and maybe a shelf in both enclosures. I'll make the hides as big as I can, though, to help take up space.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

That is because he's full grown, he's almost 7 years old, and he was getting really skinny. His skin hung loose, and his body was pyramid-shaped. Now he's starting to put on some weight, slowly but surely. At his size (3ft 7in) I shouldn't be able to touch my fingers together wrapping them around him. My hands are really tiny. Unfortunately, he only really seems to eat when I give him mice. He'll eat as many as I offer him. He won't touch a rat of any size, and he hadn't been fed mice in years, until he stopped eating this time. I guess I can bring it back up when I get him into the new enclosure, so he has more options to thermoregulate.

Here's a question for anyone who can answer: would it be best just to give him enough mice each feeding, or continue giving him a mouse with a f/t rat snuck in behind it? I can start breeding mice if I stick to just feeding him mice.




Don't ball pythons prefer small spaces? That seems like it would stress him out if I made them too big. I have a big Tupperware box I can use for his water dish, it's plenty big enough. I am also going to be putting branches/logs and maybe a shelf in both enclosures. I'll make the hides as big as I can, though, to help take up space.

You can make small spaces with big objects. And not everything has to be big inside an enclosure. You can put a big log, a small log, a small hide under a big hide. You can make a hide out of a water bowl that is stacked on two objects.

These things are just coming off the top of my mind. You just have to be creative. Just figure out what works by testing out different things in the enclosure.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

That is because he's full grown, he's almost 7 years old, and he was getting really skinny. His skin hung loose, and his body was pyramid-shaped. Now he's starting to put on some weight, slowly but surely. At his size (3ft 7in) I shouldn't be able to touch my fingers together wrapping them around him. My hands are really tiny. Unfortunately, he only really seems to eat when I give him mice. He'll eat as many as I offer him. He won't touch a rat of any size, and he hadn't been fed mice in years, until he stopped eating this time. I guess I can bring it back up when I get him into the new enclosure, so he has more options to thermoregulate.

Here's a question for anyone who can answer: would it be best just to give him enough mice each feeding, or continue giving him a mouse with a f/t rat snuck in behind it? I can start breeding mice if I stick to just feeding him mice....

You need to stop thinking the size of a ball python as black/white. I have plenty of adult males that are healthy and smaller than your snake. I only ever feed my males small rats as they don't require more than that to stay healthy, thrive and breed for me. Even if they go off food during the breeding season it doesn't scare me.

I wouldn't worry about him being a certain length and age and how your fingers fit around him. I'd worry about his eating habit. It's odd he went off rats and now will only eat mice. I'd keep him in a smaller tub and only offer rats.

Maybe scent live rats, I'd use rat pups as they are similar size to a mouse.

Lastly, I would NEVER lower the temp of the enclosure because you suck at keeping his weight up. The solution if he's cruising right after a meal? Feed him more. Clearly you're underfeeding at this time if he was still losing weight.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You need to stop thinking the size of a ball python as black/white. I have plenty of adult males that are healthy and smaller than your snake. I only ever feed my males small rats as they don't require more than that to stay healthy, thrive and breed for me. Even if they go off food during the breeding season it doesn't scare me.

I wouldn't worry about him being a certain length and age and how your fingers fit around him. I'd worry about his eating habit. It's odd he went off rats and now will only eat mice. I'd keep him in a smaller tub and only offer rats.

Maybe scent live rats, I'd use rat pups as they are similar size to a mouse.

Lastly, I would NEVER lower the temp of the enclosure because you suck at keeping his weight up. The solution if he's cruising right after a meal? Feed him more. Clearly you're underfeeding at this time if he was still losing weight.

Ok, I'll see if I can get him to eat a little more. Right now I've managed to get him to eat every 2 weeks, with the mice. Should I try feeding every week instead, until he gains weight? Next time I go to the pet store, I'll ask if they can give me the stinkiest mouse bedding they have. It's really strange, though. The scent and movement of the rat will get him into a striking position, but when he gets close to it, he turns away. I even tried smaller rats to see if it was the size he had a problem with, despite me seeing him take medium rats every time he ate. And now he's gaining weight, rather than losing it. Another reason I lowered was I read 90F was too high of a basking spot for a ball python, is that incorrect?

[bigsnakegirl785]

Anyways, here's an update. We worked some more on the first enclosure yesterday and the day before. We ended up going with sliding glass doors, and the glass and tracks should be arriving by sometime next week. During one of the days it isn't raining, we will begin working on the second cage.

Day 1: We added the lip, treated and sealed the wood, and drilled ventilation holes.










Day 2: We went ahead and mounted one of the RHP's, and the one fluorescent light fixture we have. We still need 3 more fluorescent light fixtures, 2 red bulbs, and 2 white bulbs, bedding, decorations, and hides. I got one set of 3 blocks of EcoEarth, but I'll need several more. Should I get a big bag of ReptiBark as well, and just mix them up? Or will the EcoEarth be fine by itself?

The RHP's wire goes out through the top, and so does the light's. We will rearrange the wire for the fluorescent lights so it comes out the back of the fixture, and no longer has that loop behind it.

[Mikoh4792]

It's coming out very nice. Where will you place the probe for the thermostat? I don't have any experience with thermostat probe placement when it comes to overhead heating and ground dwelling animals. I use belly heat for most of my terrestrial snakes and only overhead heating for arboreal/semi arboreal snakes.

Just wondering since I will be moving all my snakes to plastic enclosures when they get bigger and I am planning on also using RHP's for them.

[guyabano]

Awesome snake box. The pattern on the plywood is pretty cool too. You planning to stain it?