ready made sleeping hides for Savs - Page 6

varanus_mad · 06-09-13, 11:32 AM

No sav's dont flavirufus do...

They will have multiple entrances to there burrows think rabbits acces and egress from multiple points...

generally it gets to hot for them to be active midday and usually come out mid-afternoon again,

Again not something thats really needed there bit and bats of equipment about that you can create a full day cycle with inc sunrise sunset middday etc etc...

to be honest its just a faff to my eyes simple lights on lights off there no harm in keeping the lights on a bit longer i.e. having a 10hrs of heat 14hrs of light etc..

formica · 06-09-13, 11:41 AM

kool, thanks for the info!

yeah I've seen some sunrise/sunset equipment, massivly over priced for what it is tbh, can probly do it with a set of timers for light/UV/heat

mdfmonitor · 06-09-13, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

i fully understand everyones concerns for the welfare of my Sav; shame this turned more heated than I had hoped, I still have questions and I'd value your answers

Do Sav's seal up their burrows at night after they enter?

Do they have more than one entrance/exit at a time? or just one?

According to a few things I've read, Sav's are more active in the cooler times of day, retreating to their burrows once the mid-day sun kicks in, and remerging later in the day when its cooled a bit; would it perhaps be beneficial to continue to provide lots of lighting some time after the main heating lights have gone off, say for 1-2hrs after the heat lamps and UVA goes off, this may induce some more natural behaviour in them?

My Sav is active hunting all day, then I guess 8-9hrs after the heat has switched on, he goes to his burrow and thats it until the next day; the current heating setup I have is not particuly natural, light should still be fairly bright long after the heat of the sun has died down a few degrees

Savs & monitors do seal burrows behind them, the argus i have now seals his burrow behind him.

in captivity the ability to dig a long tunnel is a plus!!

in their home turf midday is very hot (as i'm sure you know) so 28/30c is about their hunting time backed up by 125/130f basking surface temp.

1'm using 24 hour basking lamps currently which provide a nice constant even basking temp whenever he wants to use it, but he's well out the way of the light at bedtime.

In your starter cage your sav can soon grow out of it & as it gets bigger it will be hard to meet its requirement in your starter cage!!

there's no point anyone having a go at you, because all you'll do is press that off button & we've all lost out then.

8 weeks & they explode in size in the right conditions>
the small piece of wood is the measure.

formica · 06-10-13, 04:13 AM

awsome pic, nice size comparison there - no prob on the size issue for me, I have a 5x2 ready and waiting, and most of the parts for a custom enclosure are ready, except the base because I'm still decieding on the best approach to this artificial hide area alongside the burrow digging area.

So now we have confliciting views on whether Sav's seal their nests haha I would have thought that they did tbh, espcially if the ground above was a little drier than they like - so I was thinking of including 2 cat flap type doors in the artificial bit, to help keep humidity in - could be a deal breaker on wether or not the Sav likes using the artificial area I think;

any more experiences on sealing of burrows at night ppl can share?

ps. mdfmonitor - i dont have an off button dont worry; despite disagreements, i'm not gona switch off listening to people more experienced than me, even if they are rude in their presentation of their disagreement

infernalis · 06-10-13, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

any more experiences on sealing of burrows at night ppl can share?

Littlefoot & Cera will, have and do seal off tunnels frequently. In fact they seal them over so well, it's very difficult to tell the opening ever existed at all.

formica · 06-10-13, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Littlefoot & Cera will, have and do seal off tunnels frequently. In fact they seal them over so well, it's very difficult to tell the opening ever existed at all.

I think i read someone else talking about their Sav changing the entrance frequently and sealing them over, moving them about - which i think is what you are refering to?

What i mean is, do they seal themselves in at night, when they goto sleep - i think kinda hard to know without actually poking around inside the burrow at night; they may do it just at the entrance of their sleeping chamber deep inside, if they do it - ok something to look into, gona need an endoscopic camera for that! i think this is quite an important question for design of any artificial sleeping hide

infernalis · 06-10-13, 08:20 AM

correct, I have no way of knowing exactly what is going on down there, at the moment.

franks · 06-10-13, 08:34 AM

My monitor seals the exit entrance to his burrow pretty often. He ill also seal up any burrow he is not currently using. When there is leaf litter available, he will often use that.

formica · 06-10-13, 08:53 AM

thanks for keeping up with my questions guys, much appriciated! trying to build up a picture of their burrowing needs and behaviours, difficult I know to really answer my questions with certainty

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

correct, I have no way of knowing exactly what is going on down there, at the moment.

cool, ever noticed any patterns, perhaps when adding water to the soil or something, which triggers changes to his burrow position or frequency of changing entrances?

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

My monitor seals the exit entrance to his burrow pretty often. He ill also seal up any burrow he is not currently using. When there is leaf litter available, he will often use that.

interesting thanks!

I'm wondering by 'burrows', does this mean multiple seperate burrows, or multiple tunnels leading to the same sleeping area - obviously difficult to tell just from looking from above and sticking ur head down obv isnt a good idea either haha

damn i wana get a little robot cam and go investigate some burrows in Ghana

infernalis · 06-10-13, 01:28 PM

Probably no help, BUT,,,,,, I know for a fact that the tunnels in MY cage interconnect underground.

I can watch one of the lizards enter on the south end, and surface on the north end a minute or two later.

I also read (I believe it was David K. who posted it) that it's common for monitors to make "emergency" exits, tunnels that stop just shy of the surface so that if a predator enters the chamber from the main entrance, the lizard can have a "panic door" to get out in a hurry.

This seems to line up with the formation of a burrow, then immediately sealing the "front door" and polishing the dirt over to hide the construction.

I would be willing to wager an educated guess, that this is exactly what they are doing.... ????

franks · 06-10-13, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

thanks for keeping up with my questions guys, much appriciated! trying to build up a picture of their burrowing needs and behaviours, difficult I know to really answer my questions with certainty

cool, ever noticed any patterns, perhaps when adding water to the soil or something, which triggers changes to his burrow position or frequency of changing entrances?

interesting thanks!

I'm wondering by 'burrows', does this mean multiple seperate burrows, or multiple tunnels leading to the same sleeping area - obviously difficult to tell just from looking from above and sticking ur head down obv isnt a good idea either haha

damn i wana get a little robot cam and go investigate some burrows in Ghana

Keep in mind that these are the most intelligent reptiles that we are aware of. Much of their intelligence has been passed down instinctively to them. For instance, my monitor learned that the water was changed everyday, so that is where he poops. Monitors have learned and adapted behaviors from life out in Africa, that we see in captivity but do not always understand the source. Specifically in pertaining to burrows, it is my belief (unfounded) that they cover their burrows, because of the natural predators that they are accustomed to. Daniel Bennett observed that a small monitor never would claim a "bigger" burrow. They will expand a burrow, but never inhabit an existing one that was much larger. Obviously, a larger burrow could be unsafe. In the same vain of thought, an area of Savannah with numerous burrow holes would be sure to attract cobras, and larger monitors, both of which spend their life wandering around looking for burrows to plunder. Whenever I clean or overhaul the enclosure, I start numerous burrows by rocks, branches, tree trunks etc. My monitor has these all covered up within 12 hours ever single time. Just an interesting observation and my unfounded opinion.

infernalis · 06-10-13, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franks

Just an interesting observation and my unfounded opinion.

1. I have observed similar with my lizards, any "new" burrows get covered over quickly, and any burrows that they lose interest in get buried quick too.

2. your opinion is not "unfounded", you formed a hypothesis based on current data. The hypothesis is sound, and therefore not without merit.

(Hope that makes sense.)

mdfmonitor · 06-13-13, 03:18 PM

here's a hole for you, the soil around the entrance looks fresh, so i'm thinking she'd back filled the hole & dug herself back out!

fresh soil towards back middle of pick>

formica · 06-14-13, 02:08 AM

thanks for the pic!

found this old journal if anyones interested: http://www.varanidae.org/Varanews/VN4-2_3.pdf

Lots of interesting bits of info on nesting sites, humidity and tempreture levels and estiviation (day/night changes indicating lots of ground water and low temp soils during dry seasons) - also hints at investigation into physiological changes during etstivation, but no data, shame; going to see if I can find it and add it to my other thread

Pirarucu · 06-14-13, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I also read (I believe it was David K. who posted it) that it's common for monitors to make "emergency" exits, tunnels that stop just shy of the surface so that if a predator enters the chamber from the main entrance, the lizard can have a "panic door" to get out in a hurry.

This seems to line up with the formation of a burrow, then immediately sealing the "front door" and polishing the dirt over to hide the construction.

I would be willing to wager an educated guess, that this is exactly what they are doing.... ????

I know that other monitors do the exact same thing, but it is very interesting that yours are doing it. I know DB stated in his book that he did not observe Savs doing this. Perhaps it is a regional thing, or for some other reason they do not all do it?