I may be shying away from kingsnakes - Maybe some of ya'll can keep me going?

Mikoh4792 · 06-01-13, 06:52 AM

A few years ago, I had an albino california kingsnake that was about 4 feet. Everytime I handled it, it tried to eat me. It was never defensive, just hungry for my meat. A few weeks ago, I got another california kingsnake, this time black and white banded. It is about 3 feet and it displays the same behavior. It's not a shy snake, it's always out and about in it's cage day and night. Whenever I get near it, it goes for me like I am food. I've tried handling it a few times but there was never a handling session where it didn't try to swallow one of my fingers. Are all kingsnakes like this? I'm beginning to feel that kingsnakes just want to eat everything that moves. They are beautiful snakes, which is what attracted me to them in the first place, however the experiences I am having with them may stop me from getting more in my collection.

StudentoReptile · 06-01-13, 07:07 AM

The behavior is not entirely exclusive to CA kings, but in my experience, they are the most prone to doing this than any other member of Lampropeltis getula....or arguably any other snake, for that matter! That said, I have kept a few very nice Callies.

This is my favorite species, but I will admit, mainly for their over-popularity and this behavior, CA kings are my least fav subspecies.

If you still want to hold on to kings, maybe try some of the other species. You got: eastern (chain) kings, eastern black kings, speckled kings, Florida kings, Appalachicola kings, Mexican black kings and desert kings. All are nearly identical in care to CA kings, although I will say the eastern species (easterns, FL, speckles and Applach.) get larger (over 5 ft), and may need a smidge more humidity than the western species.

If you still dig that vivid black/white coloration, there are several locale-specifics for both easterns and speckled, and some mutations of the Florida king that may be appealing.

bcr229 · 06-01-13, 09:49 AM

Our MBK has recently started to show the food-driven behavior described by the OP. As a result we've been hook training her. Basically, if she's getting handled for any reason other than feeding, the hook goes in first and we touch her gently with it to break her food response. Once she is out of her enclosure she's fine.

Also, we initially had been moving her to a separate feeding tub so that she could eat while we spot-cleaned her enclosure. This was a mistake on our part as she started to associate handling with eating. So, she is only fed inside of her enclosure now and we don't handle her at all on feeding days.

jarich · 06-01-13, 09:56 AM

Honestly it's one of the reasons I like mine so much. They are so active and inquisitive and fearless; makes the more tame species seem boring.

StudentoReptile · 06-01-13, 09:57 AM

Hook-training helps. I did have one very old LTC speckled that I used a hook with to get out. I also had my MBK latch on once, but it was one incident where I had mouse scent all over my hand and didn't wash before handling him. He only did it the one time.

CK SandBoas · 06-01-13, 09:58 AM

My Grey Banded King has never once gone for my fingers or hand when i've handled him. He is very easy to handle, and to remove from his enclosure. He does have the typical King appetite and feeding response when i place his meals in his enclosure. Goes after the f/t mice with gusto, lol.

Mikoh4792 · 06-01-13, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

The behavior is not entirely exclusive to CA kings, but in my experience, they are the most prone to doing this than any other member of Lampropeltis getula....or arguably any other snake, for that matter! That said, I have kept a few very nice Callies.

This is my favorite species, but I will admit, mainly for their over-popularity and this behavior, CA kings are my least fav subspecies.

If you still want to hold on to kings, maybe try some of the other species. You got: eastern (chain) kings, eastern black kings, speckled kings, Florida kings, Appalachicola kings, Mexican black kings and desert kings. All are nearly identical in care to CA kings, although I will say the eastern species (easterns, FL, speckles and Applach.) get larger (over 5 ft), and may need a smidge more humidity than the western species.

If you still dig that vivid black/white coloration, there are several locale-specifics for both easterns and speckled, and some mutations of the Florida king that may be appealing.

If I had enough room, I would get them all. Each subspecies is interesting in their own way. I think these kingsnakes I have been buying weren't handled very much since birth. Most likely just fed and had their cage cleaned until adulthood without any handling outside of that.

Mikoh4792 · 06-01-13, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcr229

Our MBK has recently started to show the food-driven behavior described by the OP. As a result we've been hook training her. Basically, if she's getting handled for any reason other than feeding, the hook goes in first and we touch her gently with it to break her food response. Once she is out of her enclosure she's fine.

Also, we initially had been moving her to a separate feeding tub so that she could eat while we spot-cleaned her enclosure. This was a mistake on our part as she started to associate handling with eating. So, she is only fed inside of her enclosure now and we don't handle her at all on feeding days.

How old is she? Do you think a 2 year old kingsnake could just calm down like that?(not really calm down, but be less bitey)

Starbuck · 06-01-13, 06:13 PM

my female king snake started off as a doll (as a baby), then just before she turned two she turned into a monster. Then i started the hook training, and that really seemed to turn her around. She is still in total food mode anytime you go to open her viv, but she knows that once she is hooked and out of the viv, she isnt getting food. I generally hook her, put her on the bed and let her calm down for a minute, then begin handling.

Both of my kings are extremely reactive to other snake smells, is it possible your king is smelling other snakes (if you have any?).

My male king i got at about 2 years old, and while he is very food motivated, i'm much less scared of being bit by him. He is too nervous being handled to think about food, whereas my female i feel is actually too comfortable around people, that she is able to think of food still, all the time :P

Mikoh4792 · 06-01-13, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starbuck

my female king snake started off as a doll (as a baby), then just before she turned two she turned into a monster. Then i started the hook training, and that really seemed to turn her around. She is still in total food mode anytime you go to open her viv, but she knows that once she is hooked and out of the viv, she isnt getting food. I generally hook her, put her on the bed and let her calm down for a minute, then begin handling.

Both of my kings are extremely reactive to other snake smells, is it possible your king is smelling other snakes (if you have any?).

My male king i got at about 2 years old, and while he is very food motivated, i'm much less scared of being bit by him. He is too nervous being handled to think about food, whereas my female i feel is actually too comfortable around people, that she is able to think of food still, all the time :P

She definitely smells other snakes because they are all in the same room.

formica · 06-02-13, 12:48 AM

some suggestions, wash you hands allot more before you handle, obv but could be smell of food on you, maybe use a very strong perfumed detergant soap, and use tongs to pick him up rather than your fingers for now (unless you use tongs for feeding, then use somethin else), keep your hands in tight fist as much as possible, so there are no fingers that look like food it can get it in its mouth, i doubt he's big enogh to swallow a fist and it knows it.

which leads me to two points

first: keep a very small perfume bottle/single stream bottle near by containing viniger and if it bites, spray it in his mouth, he's soon learn you dont taste good

If you this doesnt work, you should also consider that he's biting because he's scared not because he wants food, snakes have diffrent personalities, he might seem cool as a cucumber, but be brickin (english slang: very very scared) inside and doesnt want to show it to a potential predetor, common animal tactic when approached by something scarey, flight or fight init. i know its suggested that its typical behavour, but we have to think like the snake, is he really tryin to swollow your arm for lunch? my guess is not, and perhaps with a slower approach to handling, ie reduce amount you handle, keep hands in fists, spray when biten, and just keep your hands in enclosure all the time so he knows your hands and that they are definitly not food, slowly build up contact and thus his confidence that you aint about to make him into a sandwhich. no snake is going to around biting full grown elephants coz they are hungry are they! (analo

the sprayer thing can work great, although in my limited experience a snake will generally leave go long before you reach for the bottle when it realizes its not a pinkie its got hold of

Mikoh4792 · 06-02-13, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by formica

some suggestions, wash you hands allot more before you handle, obv but could be smell of food on you, maybe use a very strong perfumed detergant soap, and use tongs to pick him up rather than your fingers for now (unless you use tongs for feeding, then use somethin else), keep your hands in tight fist as much as possible, so there are no fingers that look like food it can get it in its mouth, i doubt he's big enogh to swallow a fist and it knows it.

which leads me to two points

first: keep a very small perfume bottle/single stream bottle near by containing viniger and if it bites, spray it in his mouth, he's soon learn you dont taste good

If you this doesnt work, you should also consider that he's biting because he's scared not because he wants food, snakes have diffrent personalities, he might seem cool as a cucumber, but be brickin (english slang: very very scared) inside and doesnt want to show it to a potential predetor, common animal tactic when approached by something scarey, flight or fight init. i know its suggested that its typical behavour, but we have to think like the snake, is he really tryin to swollow your arm for lunch? my guess is not, and perhaps with a slower approach to handling, ie reduce amount you handle, keep hands in fists, spray when biten, and just keep your hands in enclosure all the time so he knows your hands and that they are definitly not food, slowly build up contact and thus his confidence that you aint about to make him into a sandwhich. no snake is going to around biting full grown elephants coz they are hungry are they! (analo

the sprayer thing can work great, although in my limited experience a snake will generally leave go long before you reach for the bottle when it realizes its not a pinkie its got hold of

Very sound advice. I've never heard of the vinegar thing although what usually works for me to use turn on the faucet and put the snakes head under warm water.

formica · 06-02-13, 04:34 AM

edit: unnecessary additions to original post

formica · 06-02-13, 04:42 AM

if the snake is biting fast and then retreating, it means its not yet ready to trust you, take things slow, get it used to you being around, and your hands being close, might take weeks, just dont rush it. it might be that it'll never like human handling, sumthing you should be prepared for, but usually they will learn to trust eventually

Concept9 · 06-02-13, 05:36 AM

Good morning.

Kingsnakes are no less then awesome.

I have three kingsnakes and have work with two others. Other then a baby I was training I have fever been bitten by any of my Kingsnakes. Including my Mexican Black who are known for being feisty.

In my experience Kingsnakes only really bite for a couple reasons.

1) The animal could be stressed, this could be caused by many reasons such as to much handling, not being handled correctly or possibly something is wrong with it's enclosure such as not enough hides.

I changed my substrate once on my MBK to repti-bark and for what ever reason (I,m guessing he couldn't burrow well in it) he turned pissy.

When I changed it back to aspen, he became his old self again immediately.

2) They are in food/eating mode. Hook training and clean hands should take care of this. I have never had to hook train any of mine. I do wash my hands ALL the time before entering their enclosure. I can put my hands right in and pat them or pick them up with no problems.

You mentioned you have other snakes in the room. This may be a causing a food reaction considering snakes are a favored meal for Kingsnakes in the wild.

Maybe try moving them for a few weeks and see what happens.