the ultimate lightweight monitor enclosure

[jhinton6932]

Originally Posted by DeadlyDesires

yall should know that he is planning on putting a NILE in here, that is 4 ft and this enclosure is only 6 ft long.. he thinks it will be fine.. because he has had his nile for 3 years and its only at 4 ft long. the op also refuses to see that he will need a larger enclosure. and doesn't think he needs soil at all.

i think niles get pretty large sometimes but it looks good. shud be a bit larger probably but idk how big your monitor actually is. that wont house an adult male though im pretty sure

[DiscoPat]

Without holding 2 feet of substrate it will hold almost no species of monitor.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by DiscoPat

Without holding 2 feet of substrate it will hold almost no species of monitor.

I don't agree with this. The "2 feet" magic number that is used in husbandry, but if it was 1.5 feet, do you think red ackies will perish in here? How about brevicauda, kingorum, and don't forget the tree species which don't typically burrow or ever hang out on the ground anyways...(not saying don't provide substrate) but plenty of people have very healthy monitors, even producing young, without '2 feet' of substrate. Perhaps its critical for the health of some burrowing species like savannahs, but I don't think its critical for all of them.

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by smy_749

I don't agree with this. The "2 feet" magic number that is used in husbandry, but if it was 1.5 feet, do you think red ackies will perish in here? How about brevicauda, kingorum, and don't forget the tree species which don't typically burrow or ever hang out on the ground anyways...(not saying don't provide substrate) but plenty of people have very healthy monitors, even producing young, without '2 feet' of substrate. Perhaps its critical for the health of some burrowing species like savannahs, but I don't think its critical for all of them.

This. Two feet is what you need for mid-sized burrowing monitors. You don't need a deep soil substrate for all monitors, Lace Monitors serving as a suitable example. That being said, I personally would still provide a deep layer of soil even for those monitors that don't "need" it. For those monitors that do need a deep layer of soil, a good rule of thumb is to provide at least half the monitor's length in depth, excepting in the case of very young monitors where half the body length would not be deep enough to create a burrow in.

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

This. Two feet is what you need for mid-sized burrowing monitors. You don't need a deep soil substrate for all monitors, Lace Monitors serving as a suitable example. That being said, I personally would still provide a deep layer of soil even for those monitors that don't "need" it. For those monitors that do need a deep layer of soil, a good rule of thumb is to provide at least half the monitor's length in depth, excepting in the case of very young monitors where half the body length would not be deep enough to create a burrow in.

he wont use soil, his statement verbatim, "i have soil in his enclosure now and he never digs at it so i dont want it in there and it doesn't look clean" so we told him its because he doesn't have enough in there which is true.

[infernalis]

Care to link the thread? I missed it.

[V87]

Originally Posted by smy_749

I don't agree with this. The "2 feet" magic number that is used in husbandry, but if it was 1.5 feet, do you think red ackies will perish in here? How about brevicauda, kingorum, and don't forget the tree species which don't typically burrow or ever hang out on the ground anyways...(not saying don't provide substrate) but plenty of people have very healthy monitors, even producing young, without '2 feet' of substrate. Perhaps its critical for the health of some burrowing species like savannahs, but I don't think its critical for all of them.

Tree monis do burrow and it plays an important role in all monitor husbandry ..... Gout is a killer and also for a nesting pair it is if high importance ...

[Danimal]

Deze what is that made out of? Guessing some kind of aluminum framing and panels? Will you share the specs? I am interested in the construction.

[smy_749]

Originally Posted by V87

Tree monis do burrow and it plays an important role in all monitor husbandry ..... Gout is a killer and also for a nesting pair it is if high importance ...

Do you have proof of burrowing green trees or anything in the wild? Not being an idiot, I'd just like to see it. I don't like to bring people's husbandry as a proof for why something is not needed, but I'm going to do it anyways. I don't think it can be that important if crocdoc has almost no substrate in his enclosure and his lacy's are very healthy. The reptile whisperer lady or whatever the hell shes called doesn't use it either and seems to ahve very healthy trees. Do salvadorii and salvators also make burrows? Or rock dwelling species?


Also, can you not provide a substitute for the burrow (a nest box / humid hide box) to serve the same purpose without being bothered with deep substrate?

[V87]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Do you have proof of burrowing green trees or anything in the wild? Not being an idiot, I'd just like to see it. I don't like to bring people's husbandry as a proof for why something is not needed, but I'm going to do it anyways. I don't think it can be that important if crocdoc has almost no substrate in his enclosure and his lacy's are very healthy. The reptile whisperer lady or whatever the hell shes called doesn't use it either and seems to ahve very healthy trees. Do salvadorii and salvators also make burrows? Or rock dwelling species?


Also, can you not provide a substitute for the burrow (a nest box / humid hide box) to serve the same purpose without being bothered with deep substrate?

Now wen I say burrow I don't mean they make burrows to the extent savs do ... But my female tree used to burrow all the time especially at night but I have no pics or proof so ill guess u just have to take my word for it and this burrowing doesn't have to b strictly on the ground u can make arboreal substrate points in which they can burrow .... I'm shocked that crocdoc doesn't have much substrate tbh I don't knw him not have I spoke to him at all but I have heard of him and his reputation this is why I am shocked as I thought he would have a depth of substrate ..... U can create neat boxes and all sorts but doesn't mean they will use them ... My female laid in the substrate on the floor .... Even though I provided arboreal nest boxes .... And I have heard of other tree monis laying in the substrate instead of neat boxes .... Maybe cause I'm not getting the right temps of where the box is situated or maybe she don't like em but I knw they other greens have laid in the substrate ....

A deep substrate IMO is a necessity .... Maybe somepeople don't use it but if we are trying to replicate nature as best we can for the good of the captive ... Then a few feet of soil is nothing compared to nature but its a start ...

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by smy_749

Do you have proof of burrowing green trees or anything in the wild? Not being an idiot, I'd just like to see it. I don't like to bring people's husbandry as a proof for why something is not needed, but I'm going to do it anyways. I don't think it can be that important if crocdoc has almost no substrate in his enclosure and his lacy's are very healthy. The reptile whisperer lady or whatever the hell shes called doesn't use it either and seems to ahve very healthy trees. Do salvadorii and salvators also make burrows? Or rock dwelling species?


Also, can you not provide a substitute for the burrow (a nest box / humid hide box) to serve the same purpose without being bothered with deep substrate?

Hi, David (crocdoc) does have relatively deep substrate in his V. Varius enclosure (as well as the nestbox).
V. salvator certainly do burrow, and V. salvadorii may well do the same, they (both species) may sometimes take refuge in the base of large trees, amongst other places. I don`t think the "critical" depth need be 2 feet for all Varanids, though obviously the larger the monitor, the more depth will be needed.
V. exathematicus females don`t usually nest deeper than 12inches.

[smy_749]

I'm not trying to encourage people to skimp out on substrate if they can provide it, was just curious if anyone actually observed burrowing by tree dwelling species, given all the parameters are correct and there is an alternative to burrowing for humidity etc. But if you say you've seen burrowing, and murr as well, than I guess its best to provide it and it certainly wouldn't cause harm.

Murr do the salvators actually dig out full burrows and spend significant time in them? or the salvordii? I figured the lacys did since I saw the termite mound pictures, but only included them because I thought somewhere that crocdoc said he used to have deep substrate and they didn't use it much so thats why he made it less deep.

When I picture a tree dwelling species burrow, I picture something like a half hole under a log (just digging out a gap to rest in, as opposed to a full burrow). I guess the anatomy of a green tree or similar doesn't "look" like its designed for burrowing in the least.

[DeadlyDesires]

This photo was givin to me to post on this forum to show proof that Green Trees do infact borrow... This is a photo of Frank Retes' green trees

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by smy_749

I'm not trying to encourage people to skimp out on substrate if they can provide it, was just curious if anyone actually observed burrowing by tree dwelling species, given all the parameters are correct and there is an alternative to burrowing for humidity etc. But if you say you've seen burrowing, and murr as well, than I guess its best to provide it and it certainly wouldn't cause harm.

Murr do the salvators actually dig out full burrows and spend significant time in them? or the salvordii? I figured the lacys did since I saw the termite mound pictures, but only included them because I thought somewhere that crocdoc said he used to have deep substrate and they didn't use it much so thats why he made it less deep.

When I picture a tree dwelling species burrow, I picture something like a half hole under a log (just digging out a gap to rest in, as opposed to a full burrow). I guess the anatomy of a green tree or similar doesn't "look" like its designed for burrowing in the least.

Salvators do dig out actual burrows and do spend time in them, though not as much as some other species. There are several articles in Biawak detailing this.

No, tree dwelling species do not usually have elaborate burrows like more terrestrial monitors do. This is, as you guessed, because they aren't as well adapted to dig elaborate burrows. Their smaller burrows still serve the same purposes though.

[smy_749]

How about komodo's? I'm thinking of buying one and I don't think I can provide the amount of substrate needed for him to fit inside a burrow.

Anyways, I learned something new about water monitors. The tree monitor thing is not as surprising as they are not really full on burrows as much as just moving a bit of dirt to fit in a tight space on the ground it seems...