Question about.feeing dead mice - Page 2

Chu'Wuti · 03-08-13, 05:43 PM

KORBIN5895 said,

Quote:

No is is feeding rodents mazuri in the wild and both rodents and snake have done fine for centuries.

First, that is absolutely true--but rodents living in the wild have a FAR greater variety of foods in their diet than oatmeal, potatoes, and carrots, or cheap dogfood. In addition, snakes living in the wild also have a far greater variety of food sources--even if they eat "only" mice (which I take leave to doubt; I'll bet they eat other critters as well, generating even greater variety in their diet)--because they might eat one mouse or mouse family one day, then eat another mouse/family from a different area yards away another day, which would mean that the mice had been eating different things.

Second, I totally agree that the mouse with the hole in its ribs had to have more/other problems than feed; however, the feed may have caused the issue indirectly. If that mouse was housed with other mice, which many mice breeders do, and if they were all fed inadequately, then some more aggressive mice might easily have begun gnawing on a mouse weakened/slowed by pregnancy. I'm only guessing on that, though, and I definitely do not dispute your argument. I don't buy from that breeder, though not originally for that reason, and having an established relationship with another source that I'm confident uses good husbandry and top quality feed means I don't need to change my source.

Third, I also think you're correct that there are no shared mammalian-reptilian diseases, though we could both be wrong.

However, if one's mice or rats are diseased or become susceptible to disease because they are weakened by inadequate nourishment, then the breeder would be putting himself or herself at risk. In June of 2012, there was a problem at a rodent breeding facility in the U.S. with Lymphocytic Choriomeningitis, known as LCM or LCMV. This is a viral disease hosted by rodents that affects nearly five percent of the mice population. While it is rodent-born, humans are placed at risk of becoming very ill if exposed to fresh mice or rat urine, droppings, or saliva of mice/rats carrying the disease. This is not something I would want to have to deal with. (Source: Farm World – weekly farm newspaper source for ag news, classifieds, auctions)

While I would argue that size and quality are not completely correlated (think about obese people and the respective proportions of protein and fat in such people, just for a start), I do believe that Mykee is an exemplary representative of a snake breeder whose concern for his snakes is so high that he wouldn't skimp on feeding their food. I've read many of his posts and his concern for good husbandry in all areas is very obvious.

wdissident · 03-08-13, 06:05 PM

Sandy do you put any personal experience into your posts? I feel like youre just regurgitating information you read online.

Chu'Wuti · 03-08-13, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdissident

Sandy do you put any personal experience into your posts? I feel like youre just regurgitating information you read online.

How about 40 years of snake-keeping experience? Would that do?

I do often "regurgitate" information from credible (i.e., professionals such as veterinarians or academic researchers) sources because that helps keep me from getting into a personal argument with someone. However, in addition to my snake-keeping experience, I am also an academic researcher myself (though not in the field of herpetology) and thus have a great deal of respect for academic research.

Hope this answers your questions.

As we're getting personal here, I'll note that it seems you just want someone to give you permission to feed that dead mouse to your snake and to tell you it'll be fine. A couple of people have done that even while some of us have preferred to "err on the side of caution." Now it's up to you to decide what to do.

Good luck!

KORBIN5895 · 03-08-13, 07:40 PM

Let preface this with a disclaimer: I am probably the worst keeper put there. I don't check temps or humidity, I refreeze my rodents after they thaw and I don't worry about when they shed or poop.

Now personally I would feed it off no problem as I am quite sure the snakes stomach acids will destroy anything that could be on that rat. I personally feel most people over think there herps. I get mine dialed in then let it be.

Also I think I really like you Sandy. Glad you you bring your honesty and experience back here .

infernalis · 03-08-13, 07:51 PM

feed the dead mouse, why waste food.

Chu'Wuti · 03-09-13, 08:03 AM

Why, thank you, KORBIN5895! I like being able to share honest opinions and information with people like you who don't make personal attacks on others. As long as we keep things on the information and different opinion levels, it's great to hear the variety of ways people work with their snakes.

In addition, KORBIN5895, I am quite sure you are NOT the "worst keeper out there"--I know a couple of those--one of them brought me an animal that even after two months of feeding is still underweight (you should have seen it when I got it--wish I'd taken a picture), and one of them brought me an egg-bound, calcium-deficient/MBD-afflicted, extremely malnourished cham that we couldn't save. Those are just the two most recent examples of rescues I've dealt with.

Furthermore, I am actually glad to hear you've refrozen thawed mice and fed them off without a problem. I've unhappily thrown out a significant amount of $$ because one of the snakes refused to eat one night or another . . . yet if it were MY food, I would have kept it for the next day. Your experience is reassuring; that probably is something I've been overly concerned about.

Now, wdissident, you have yet another statement supporting the "go ahead and feed it" side of this discussion from Infernalis. Seems to me that you should have plenty of information and opinions to be able to make a decision without any further attacks on anyone.

See you all in the forums!

KORBIN5895 · 03-09-13, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu'Wuti

Why, thank you, KORBIN5895! I like being able to share honest opinions and information with people like you who don't make personal attacks on others. As long as we keep things on the information and different opinion levels, it's great to hear the variety of ways people work with their snakes.

That is the funniest thing I have read in forever! I really like you now. By the way you can call me Kevin. Or as some like to call me douchebag.

As for the refreezing of frozen rodent I had a box of frozen rodents get lost in the mail for 10 days. When I finally got them I just refroze them and my snakes have been feeding on them for a couple of months now.

mykee · 03-09-13, 01:05 PM

Would you eat a steak from a cow that's been sitting dead in the field in the sun for an hour?

Chu'Wuti · 03-09-13, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykee

Would you eat a steak from a cow that's been sitting dead in the field in the sun for an hour?

LOL! My DH just burst out laughing when I read that to him--he says it depends on how hungry he is!

As for me, out in the sun, no, probably not! but butchers actually do "hang" beef for several hours . . .

Still wouldn't feed a mouse sitting even at room temp for an hour or ??? to one of my snakes. But maybe, as I said, I'm just pickier than a lot of people.

Except Mykee!

(And I've found that Mykee and Aaron_S have a LOT of valuable experience & information to share!)

KORBIN5895 · 03-09-13, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykee

Would you eat a steak from a cow that's been sitting dead in the field in the sun for an hour?

Yes I would. You would be surprised at what I would eat. Would you eat a steak that has been out for an hour? Have you ever been on a farm?

Also was the mouse sitting in the sun? Did I miss something?

Chu'Wuti · 03-09-13, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KORBIN5895

Yes I would. You would be surprised at what I would eat. Would you eat a steak that has been out for an hour? Have you ever been on a farm?

Also was the mouse sitting in the sun? Did I miss something?

ROFL!!

I don't think you missed anything, but I'm not going back to look.

This thread has become hilarious! Thanks so much for giving me something to laugh at today; I'm grading midterm exams, which can be a very frustrating experience ("How many times do I have to tell you BE SPECIFIC!!!!??? TOO VAGUE!!!!")

So every once in awhile, I come here for a laugh, and thanks to Kevin and Mykee, I'm getting some great ones!

Kevin, glad to meet a new friend--I love your sense of humor!

Mykee, I've ALWAYS loved your caustic wit as well as great information!

Now back to those exams . . .