Feeding and substrate question

dinosaurdammit · 02-04-13, 07:06 PM

With my baby boy Ive been wanting to make him a more naturalistic set up, I now use dirt/sand to get that tropical feel and it helps with humidity and keeps the plants alive, which he seems to love. Question here is dirt bad? I guess I should have asked before hand but I got so tired of mulch, it was hard to keep humidity and bothered his breathing. This stuff is great and Ive even seen him burrow a bit.

Second question:

Lately tucson has seen a rat crisis. The only rats you can ever find IF you can find them are the small ones. It would take 4 to 5 to equal what he NEED to eat. So I have resorted to pigeons. They are large, meaty but as well lean. At 5 dollars a large bird its cheeper than the rats, plus fresh (no I dont feed live but I kill then straight feed). Is there any harm in this? I looked for chickens but pigeons are FAR more economical and easier to come by, apparently pigeons are a big deal here. They arnt wild- they are birmingham roller pigeons and fan tails so no risk of parasites. Is there any negative to pigeons? I would buy online but with us leaving for germany it doesnt seem cost effective to pay 55 dollars on rats then 60 something on shipping. :/

dinosaurdammit · 02-05-13, 09:46 AM

anyone have an answer?

jarich · 02-05-13, 12:43 PM

If you set up the soil substrate well it should be a great addition. It requires some extra effort though when its only a few inches deep as compared to say a 2 foot deep monitor enclosure. How deep is your substrate now? Do you have the plants right in the substrate or did you keep them in their pots?

As for the pigeons, Ive never actually looked into them nutritionally. Ive never heard of anyone being able to get reared ones so cheaply. Thats pretty random! Caged birds generally have a higher fat content than rodents, but Ive never seen a breakdown for pigeons specifically, so who knows. Id be interested to see any information you find out on them.

dinosaurdammit · 02-05-13, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

If you set up the soil substrate well it should be a great addition. It requires some extra effort though when its only a few inches deep as compared to say a 2 foot deep monitor enclosure. How deep is your substrate now? Do you have the plants right in the substrate or did you keep them in their pots?

As for the pigeons, Ive never actually looked into them nutritionally. Ive never heard of anyone being able to get reared ones so cheaply. Thats pretty random! Caged birds generally have a higher fat content than rodents, but Ive never seen a breakdown for pigeons specifically, so who knows. Id be interested to see any information you find out on them.

soil is about 5 inches deep, plants are in their pots, but the pots are shallow. They flow over the pot and he hides in the leaves. As for the pigeons, they are stupid easy to find here, a lot of people race them here. I buy the ones that dont make the cut. These birds are really lean and not much fat is on them. I just wonder what feathers do as far as digesting goes.

SnakeyJay · 02-05-13, 01:20 PM

I'd be interested in knowing the nutritional values for pigeons aswell, I'm not disapproving I'm just curious

dinosaurdammit · 02-05-13, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakey-Jay

I'd be interested in knowing the nutritional values for pigeons aswell, I'm not disapproving I'm just curious

how would I go about finding info like that?

edit:

Nutrition and Calories in Pigeon

Water content (grams per 100g) 56.6
Calorie content of Food (kcals per 100g/3.5oz) 294
Protein content (grams per 100g) 18.47
Fat content (lipids) (grams per 100g) 23.8
Ash content (grams per 100g) 1.4
Carbohydrate content (grams per 100g) 0
Dietary Fiber content (grams per 100g) 0
Sugar content (grams per 100g) N/A

found that but idk if thats a whole bird or just the meat aspect of it

SnakeyJay · 02-05-13, 01:25 PM

Oh I'm not sure mate, or I'd already be looking it up for you

jarich · 02-05-13, 01:51 PM

At those protein levels its almost certainly just the meat. With the entire bird, it should be up around 60% or so.

Little Wise Owl · 02-05-13, 01:59 PM

I don't see an issue with it.

Zoo Nanny · 02-05-13, 02:26 PM

I would wonder about the calcium content. Avian bones are so different being hollow and light weight compared to mammal bones.

dinosaurdammit · 02-05-13, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoo Nanny

I would wonder about the calcium content. Avian bones are so different being hollow and light weight compared to mammal bones.

i could dust if that is an issue or inject some cal with some water into the bird

jarich · 02-05-13, 03:20 PM

Calcium in birds that I have seen nutritional contents for (chicken, duck, quail, etc) is generally pretty good. Its not quite as high as some rodents, but high enough that dusting is not necessary for a snake. Again, not sure about pigeons specifically, but it seems like the whole bird should provide enough calcium, and more importantly a decent Ca:P ratio.

I know that some people have found that feeding birds exclusively leads to a watery stool and a particularly smelly one too. Again, Ive never fed birds so I cant say from personal experience. Personally I would try to change it up when you can, rodents when available, then pigeons.