need a little help here

[Terranaut]

@Tommy
Wild giants are WAY stronger that captive snakes of the same length. Just ask our resident Bronx Zoo Herp guy. He has in fact handled wild giants and mentioned this in his blogs. A snake my sit in one spot for 3-4 hrs but not weeks. Even a wild nasty ball would be easier to deak with in a large space than a small one and I keep large adult carpets in big 4x4x2 enclosures and they thrive like mad and are both healthy and docile. Actually ny female was about 7' when I got her and was in a very small enclosure with her previous owner. She was very cage defensive and a real handful. Now after being in a proper enclosure sized for her she is cool as a cuccumber and my kids handle her regularly.
If you have some science to back up what your saying I am all ears but I honestly don't think your correct in your last couple statements

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by tommy757

and all that sounds great when nature is recycling thier waste and washing everything down when it rains but in captivity that is near impossible and there is also the safty issue for the snake and the keeper .they are not a ball you can pic up and sit on a table to clean the cage its an apex predator that on instinct might strike causing injury to both keeper and snake.Im not just talking retics I dont know about you but I wouldnt wanna take a bite to the face from a 10 foot carpet a more with a more functional design aka known as dividers all the stress on both parties can be avoided does that make sense?

Wait? What?

It's unsafe to house these animals. It's a danger to the keeper. Their "instinct" may injure or even kill (proven fact they've killed) and yet it's okay to own them still? None of us really need to argue because your own words do it for us! Keep being the cheap guy who can't afford a nice sports car to compensate. The couple hundred dollar "giants" do just fine I suppose...

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by tommy757

well as you said you a opposed to them being kept at all so it doesnt matter that a huge portion of us use the accepted method of housing?I feel no matter what is said or how its presented you sir are a keyboard warrior who can hide in safety from a legitamite discussion and balk at anyone that has a different view on the same hobbie you sir are the reason we as a hobbie are divided being determined to alienate those that dont agree w/ you...is that the proper response you were looking for?
One final point in youre own words if you profit from them than anything is acceptable so who here is morally bankrupt not I for keeping my animals in clean ,safe,enviroment feeding them only the best and diverse food sources.While they live in a blissful state free from parasites and predators and yes unlike you stuffed into a tub because you make money off thier suffering !Is this clear have a great day running youre puppy mill at least in principle.

I am okay with a legit discussion the problem is who it's with, not what it's about. I have facts, honest to god FACTS about my opinions and I have YET to see one from a giant keeper. First it was "they never kill" and then I dug up 6 articles that dates back to the early 90's that they in fact have.

I'm not a keyboard warrior. I'd gladly meet anyone for an actual conversation and not some tongue wagging from a group of people who can't actual make a proper argument with facts. All I ever see are pics of huge retics with people who THINK they have some sort of control.

I don't need to alienate those who disagree with me. I actually have plenty of friends, even on this forum, who disagree with me on things and yet we get along just fine and have GREAT conversation. Heck I even made a member cry and now we have great, well thought out debates for the sheer fun of it. If you or one of the other mythical patheon wish to do so as well feel free to PM me.

Lastly, do you even know what a puppy mill is? I openly admit I'm a farmer but not a puppy mill. My animals aren't sick, bred to death, they are fed properly and clean. Not everything is acceptable for money as I've stated I don't "mill" my animals but it's okay you keep slinging mud at me and try the deflection route.It isn't working though.

[limey]

Tommy, I don't mean to be funny or anything but it does seem like you are trying to deflect or make excuses for the fact that you keep your giant snakes in undersized enclosures. Like everybody has said, that may be best and most practical for the keeper to do so, and I can totally understand that... but it's certainly not what's best for the animal.

Wouldn't you agree?

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by limey

Tommy, I don't mean to be funny or anything but it does seem like you are trying to deflect or make excuses for the fact that you keep your giant snakes in undersized enclosures. Like everybody has said, that may be best and most practical for the keeper to do so, and I can totally understand that... but it's certainly not what's best for the animal.

Wouldn't you agree?

He won't because we're uninformed and inexperienced. Even if we are those things it isn't enough experience or information because we still don't see their view. LOLOL

[tommy757]

Aron you keepsaying fact fact but its one guy franks opinion he is one herpatoligist not the entire scientific comunity and all this fact you keep saying is still mostly just common practice. no scientific logs published any where other than the internet.

when I say experiance I dont mean w/ snakes in general I mean more than holding a retic in a pet store .you keep saying im taking shots re-read youre posts saying im compensating way to go w/ the ***** jokes very origional .

and as for theorys they are good great and fine but a theory is just that not even close to fact please get a dictionary.

Finally this is just ridiculous and similar to the pack mentality @ monsters oh well enjoy the cheap acolades and I wish you the best oh and a seven foot retic is a baby not an adult .


Ps watch any of the old nat geo back in the day "Iknow im old"theres plenty on retics in the wild". but im done w/this convo youre small keepers and thats youre thing so enjoy youre snakes have a great day even you Aron

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by tommy757

Aron you keepsaying fact fact but its one guy franks opinion he is one herpatoligist not the entire scientific comunity and all this fact you keep saying is still mostly just common practice. no scientific logs published any where other than the internet.

when I say experiance I dont mean w/ snakes in general I mean more than holding a retic in a pet store .you keep saying im taking shots re-read youre posts saying im compensating way to go w/ the ***** jokes very origional .

and as for theorys they are good great and fine but a theory is just that not even close to fact please get a dictionary.

Finally this is just ridiculous and similar to the pack mentality @ monsters oh well enjoy the cheap acolades and I wish you the best oh and a seven foot retic is a baby not an adult .


Ps watch any of the old nat geo back in the day "Iknow im old"theres plenty on retics in the wild". but im done w/this convo youre small keepers and thats youre thing so enjoy youre snakes have a great day even you Aron

I don't even know what you're talking about when you mention Frank. I never once brought him up. I think it's funny that you bring him up though considering you don't have a herpetologist preaching for your ideas do you?

When I say experience it isn't from seeing a burm or a retic or even an african rock python in an enclosure at a zoo. I OWNED them buddy but you won't believe it because to you, anyone who owned one would be on YOUR side. That is simply not the case.

You mention theories, you don't have any facts or scientific research to back any of your claims. I have actual DEAD people to say they've killed people and your own words to say how dangerous these animals are! You and others have come here saying "these aren't for everybody", "these are apex predators" "these can't be controlled" "they do what they want". You just own them to hold this whole "holier than thou" attitude over us "small keepers" because you own these giants. The funny thing is we don't put you on a pedestal and you put yourself up there as some "special" group of people who are "good enough" to own them. As I said, it's proven that these animals have killed and will do again.

Lastly, it's funny that it's "pack mentality" but it's just a small number of people who openly share similar views. I'm sure you wouldn't call it "pack mentality" if I came to Retic Nation and everyone there disagreed with me.

You run along now back to your little "man cave" with you and your retic buddies and wait out the next Bill that will claim your animals.

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by tommy757

Aron you keepsaying fact fact but its one guy franks opinion he is one herpatoligist not the entire scientific comunity and all this fact you keep saying is still mostly just common practice. no scientific logs published any where other than the internet.

when I say experiance I dont mean w/ snakes in general I mean more than holding a retic in a pet store .you keep saying im taking shots re-read youre posts saying im compensating way to go w/ the ***** jokes very origional .

and as for theorys they are good great and fine but a theory is just that not even close to fact please get a dictionary.

Finally this is just ridiculous and similar to the pack mentality @ monsters oh well enjoy the cheap acolades and I wish you the best oh and a seven foot retic is a baby not an adult .


Ps watch any of the old nat geo back in the day "Iknow im old"theres plenty on retics in the wild". but im done w/this convo youre small keepers and thats youre thing so enjoy youre snakes have a great day even you Aron

I honestly have no clue what you are trying to say.