Weigh in on Rattlesnake Republic?

[Rickyrick]

I'm not arguing anyone's expertise here. Most have made good educated rebuttals. However, violating tpwd rules carries steep penalties.

I think the show is actually designed to make these guys look like slack jawed locals. It sure has caused a lot of protests, could this be the network's intention?

I just don't think the nine guys, and the handful of snakes that I suspect are reused show after show is hurting much. The Sweetwater roundup strictly forbids stunts with snakes, and many hunters speak out against the stunts also. I think the stunts are stupid as well. I frequently get rattlers and other snakes in and around my house, but I have never killed one. I just catch and relocate. I, one time, chilled a rattler with cold water until it became sluggish enough to capture, may have been the wrong method but I didn't want to kill it.

[Ryodraco]

Originally Posted by Rickyrick

I just don't think the nine guys, and the handful of snakes that I suspect are reused show after show is hurting much.

And what of the message the show gives? Does it do anything to increase our knowledge of animals, our respect for them? Does it showcase their beauty? Does it tell interesting or funny stories? Really what is the point of it beyond catering to people's fears of snakes and feeding those fears? Why air it on Animal Planet when it only insults the animal?

Certainly habitat destruction is a greater threat to rattlesnakes overall than hunting and roundups, but hunting and roundups effect healthy habitats, and encourage ill feelings towards snakes that make it more difficult to protect their habitats.

On another note, I seem to recall research that indicated some populations of rattlesnakes were being badly effected by hunting, to the extent that it was driving the survival of rattlesnakes that do not readily rattle, as those that more readily announce their presence got weeded out of the population.

Also, as I understand it the permits to hunt rattlesnakes are very easy to get, and the hunting is still pretty much not regulated. There is nothing wrong with hunting, but shouldn't caution be given when there is no real research to indicate just how much hunting a population of snakes can take before collapsing?

[Volcom269]

Originally Posted by Ryodraco

And what of the message the show gives? Does it do anything to increase our knowledge of animals, our respect for them? Does it showcase their beauty? Does it tell interesting or funny stories? Really what is the point of it beyond catering to people's fears of snakes and feeding those fears? Why air it on Animal Planet when it only insults the animal?

If your going to go that far with it, what about all the other shows that put a negative outlook on snake keeping? Shows like Fatal Attractions and Untamed and Uncut, that on several occasions they have done stories that put a negative outlook on what we do. If your wanting to go as far as saying, does the show do anything to increase our respect for the animals you have to take in consideration of all the shows they air. The shows I mentioned are the reason my family is scared to death of me getting a python or boa because of the horror stories that the show focuses on. Rattlesnake Republic doesn't really increase our knowledge of rattlesnakes, but I think its really trying to show more of the culture behind it. If you think about other TV stations that have shows that are similar to Rattlesnake Republic such a Swamp People. Discovery channel has had several seasons of Swamp People and the main focus of that show is the hunting and killing of alligators, the show is more on the culture of the hunters and I think that's what Rattlesnake Republic is trying to do.

[Ryodraco]

Originally Posted by Volcom269

If your going to go that far with it, what about all the other shows that put a negative outlook on snake keeping? Shows like Fatal Attractions and Untamed and Uncut, that on several occasions they have done stories that put a negative outlook on what we do. If your wanting to go as far as saying, does the show do anything to increase our respect for the animals you have to take in consideration of all the shows they air. The shows I mentioned are the reason my family is scared to death of me getting a python or boa because of the horror stories that the show focuses on.

To be fair, I have watched a good number of Fatal Attractions and they seem fairly fair in their presentations. Those who die are pretty much universally shown as having died not simply due to owning a particular animal but due to taking unnecessary and often stupid risks with them. Quite often they showcase interviews with experts and others who keep the animals properly.

Heck the primary message I got from the episodes I saw regarding snakes were:

1. Don't believe your snake loves you like a human and thus will do you no harm no matter what.

2. Don't believe that simply because you had a bite or two from a venomous snake and not had seriously ill effects that you have somehow become "immune."

3. Don't isolate your hobby from the world and alienate yourself from people to such a degree that if you have a problem there is no one there to help you.

4. Don't keep animals that you lack the space and money to care for properly.

5. If you keep venomous animals and interact with them then be prepared that you will likely be bitten someday.

[RandyRhoads]

Originally Posted by Ryodraco

To be fair, I have watched a good number of Fatal Attractions and they seem fairly fair in their presentations. Those who die are pretty much universally shown as having died not simply due to owning a particular animal but due to taking unnecessary and often stupid risks with them. Quite often they showcase interviews with experts and others who keep the animals properly.

Heck the primary message I got from the episodes I saw regarding snakes were:

1. Don't believe your snake loves you like a human and thus will do you no harm no matter what.

2. Don't believe that simply because you had a bite or two from a venomous snake and not had seriously ill effects that you have somehow become "immune."

3. Don't isolate your hobby from the world and alienate yourself from people to such a degree that if you have a problem there is no one there to help you.

4. Don't keep animals that you lack the space and money to care for properly.

5. If you keep venomous animals and interact with them then be prepared that you will likely be bitten someday.

...and most likely you wont be found weeks later decomposed and half eaten by your lizards.

Only seen a few episodes but they seem to be fair and always blame the moron trying to make out with the tiger, not the animal....

[Rickyrick]

All valid points. I haven't read the research on snake populations and hunting, but I will look up and read. As a resident of the area, I often get asked about rattlesnakes. Usually because of it notoriety from the roundups, everyone is supposed to be an expert lol.
It's rumored here that rattlesnakes have stopped rattling because of the pig troubles, might be a myth.
It's all about hunters, handlers and snake owners doing their chosen hobby responsibly. Like someone mentioned about pet owners being irresponsible. I wouldn't protest all snake owners because some are idiots.

Back to the show, I don't think it's an accurate portrayal of these hunters. That's only my opinion and nothing more. I would hope that most Americans understand that tv shows are nothing more than that. Early in the "reality" show craze, I realized that all these shows were mere dramatization that are made to seems like its real. Cheap to make and profitable. Finding Bigfoot is on animal planet for gosh sakes.
BTW, did you know that TPWD has an official stance on Bigfoot? Th department considers them an invasive species and there's no bag limit on Bigfeet

[infernalis]

I know for a fact that they skew these "reality" shows.

A friend of mine was asked to use his captive snakes in a scene portraying a home invasion of wild snakes.!!!

This was for the reality show "invasion" about unwanted pests taking over homes.

Seems the "invasive" snakes didn't want to cooperate for filming, so they used captive pets to make the scene look "better"

[millertime89]

I think I posted here previously about my acquaintance Danny Steele's encounter with the producers and presenters of Fatal Attractions. Anymore almost any show on Animal Planet sickens me, RR is no exception.

[Sorraia]

I refuse to watch this show. The previews look awful, and interest me in no way, shape, or form. There are many other programs on Animal Planet and other related channels that make me feel the same way. Many, if not all, of these shows are indeed sensationalized, and don’t show true reality. For example there is a certain show about a certain rescue, and every episode has some blurb about how these animals need homes, there isn’t enough money or space to care for them, woe is me. Yet when good people who can provide good homes applies to adopt an animal from said rescue, asking for help to be matched up with the right animal for their home, they are refused. As a result, those animals sit in the rescue for years. You don’t see that side of it on the tv program… Duck Dynasty makes those guys look like complete goof offs, but is that really how they are? I wouldn’t know, since I don’t know them personally, but I can’t help but wonder. A couple programs I do enjoy, like River Monsters, but the dramatizations are sometimes over the top.

So having said that… I have no desire to watch this rattlesnake program because of the way the previews present the program. What I see in the previews is a show about the rattlesnake roundups, a show promoting fear and hatred of a certain species of snake, a show that glorifies snake killing. Is this really what the show is about? Maybe not, but I have no desire to find out, because if it is how the previews present it, it would sicken me to watch it.

I am a wildlife biologist in a highly developed area, which ironically is also one of the most biodiverse areas in the United States. Every day I face opposing interests: on one side is the development, and as someone who has a home and lives in a city, I am a part of that; on the other side is conservation of species, their habitat, and the environment, and as a wildlife biologist I am a part of that. Being a highly populated area, I also face a lot of the myths and stereotypes against animals, including rattlesnakes. Did you know a rattlesnake’s sole purpose in life is to bite and kill as many people as they can? Did you know they’ll actually leap out of the bushes to bite a person? Did you know they’ll chase horses? These are some of the myths I get to hear about. As a wildlife biologist I DO come across rattlesnakes. I know more about where the rattlesnakes can be found, and how many are out there, than most people. I have not yet been bit, but do not let that fool you into thinking I do not believe it could happen. I recognize it as a very real possibility. Every year in this area people are bitten by rattlesnakes, but more often than not it is because those people were either careless or foolish, people either purposefully harassing rattlesnakes or just not paying attention to where they put their feet (if you hear a rattlesnake buzzing, do NOT run like a blind rabbit!). Sometimes it is through no fault of their own. But all of these instances do not mean rattlesnakes need to be “controlled” or exterminated. They are already in danger. There is one species in this area that is listed as a “sensitive species” because its habitat is quickly disappearing to development. It is only a matter of time before other rattlesnake species (not to ignore other snakes, reptiles, and animals) follow. These are some of the reasons I cannot bring myself to watch certain shows on tv. I get to hear enough of it in real life, I do not want to see or hear it on the tv when I am trying to relax.

[Will0W783]

I flat-out refuse to watch Rattlesnake Republic....the premise infuriates me. Yes, rattlers are common in the southwest, and they can be dangerous. However, it is US who are invading their territory, not the other way around. Humans have developed the land to the point where these snakes have no choice but to occasionally cross paths with people. The vast majority of wild snakes, rattlers included, will happily escape and leave the area at the sight or scent of a human. They don't want to waste their venom and risk tangling with us; they'd rather retreat. It's when we don't pay attention and step on them, or trap them, that they defend themselves. I can't stand the idea of rattlesnake roundups; they are cruel and disgusting, so I won't watch any show that condones them, even indirectly.

I do, however, enjoy "Monsters Inside Me" a show on AP about parasitic infections, and I used to watch Fatal Attractions, and felt that it was fair in its descriptions. The people who died, died because of foolish liberties they took with their animals, not because they owned the animals.

[Rickyrick]

Well,
The fact of the matter is, humans have a primal fear of snakes. The existence of a hunting show or not will not change that fact.

Humans hunt and kill, a tv cannot change that.

Plenty of bites occur without warning, that's a fact.

If you are invenomated (sp?) you will be debilitated for a lengthy time, that's a fact.
Human safety is first priority, domestic animals is second. Dangerous snakes must be removed, another fact. Humans are the dominant animal in this era, so, humans win.

There is a market for snake skins and other items, therefore as long as its legal people are going to hunt them. Many human activities are disapproved of by others, but disapproval doesn't necessarily make it illegal or immoral.

Many good intentioned, environmentally friendly ideas don't turn out so well. For example hundreds of thousands if acres of habitat have been destroyed to erect wind farms that can't output enough power to replace one clean gas burning turbine. But they are probably not in your back yard.

If you truly wanna protest the show, then get from behind your computer and walk out of your safe bubble and show up at Animal Planet headquarters. Go talk to your congressmen and state legislators. It's easy to fight the good fight from behind a keyboard. I find it laughable to complain about animal safety on modern conveniences that has caused more suffering(animal and human) than a handful of rednecks on a tv show.

I say good luck finding a way to travel to Washington without killing something.

Like I said, all of you have made sound arguments. I do love animals and the outdoors. I just think its ridiculous to think a tv show is going to end snake life as we know it.

[Danimal]

I agree with you Ricky. I don't watch the show or any shows like it, not something I find interesting or entertaining. My hope is that one day common sense will prevail. There are far worse things on television that a child could be influenced by. I am not a big fan of what is described as reality TV anyway so I do what I should do, I don't watch it. If a show doesn't get the numbers it doesn't stay on the air.

Calling for boycotts and protests, IMO, are just as likely to hurt a cause as help it.> (occupy ws) I am scared to death that at some point someone like that will be given a voice in the HR511 debate and make us all look like a bunch of whiney idiots. Call me crazy but I think you win a debate by having a better argument not stomping your feet. You win over your opponents with better alternatives and you assuage fears not tell them that they are stupid.

I really like reptiles but I will kill one in a second if I perceive a threat to myself of anyone around me. That also includes any other animal on the planet especially the Rabbit of Caerbannog.

[Ryodraco]

Originally Posted by Rickyrick

Plenty of bites occur without warning, that's a fact.

Have any sources to back that up? About the only time I can see a snake biting "without warning" is also probably the most common source of snake bites, namely stepping on or next to one that is hiding or sleeping. This is "without warning" only from the perspective of the person and is better termed a defensive bite.

That is when one hears "without warning" they tend to imagine the snake going out of its way to attack someone, which almost never happens.

Originally Posted by Danimal

I really like reptiles but I will kill one in a second if I perceive a threat to myself of anyone around me. That also includes any other animal on the planet especially the Rabbit of Caerbannog.

Said rabbit would have been no threat at all if those stupid knights hadn't gotten too close to it.

[Rickyrick]

You are right, the snakes don't go out of there way to attack people and when they do they perceived a threat. Diamondbacks are well camouflaged and invisible if they don't move.

I did find one statistic that said 20% of bites, alcohol was involved. Lol.

[Rickyrick]

This is from The New England Journal of Medicine. It supports your claims

The true incidence of bites by venomous snakes in the United States is probably 7000 to 8000 per year, of which 5 or 6 result in death.6 The eastern and western di- amondback rattlesnakes account for most fatalities. Deaths typically occur in children, in the elderly, and in victims to whom antivenom is not given, is given after a delay, or is administered in insufficient quan- tities.7
Typically, victims are male and between 17 and 27 years of age.8 Ninety-eight percent of bites are on ex- tremities, most often the hands or arms, and result from deliberate attempts to handle, harm, or kill the snake. Most bites occur between April and September, when snakes are active and humans are outdoors.8 Alcohol intoxication of the victim is a factor in many envenomations.8