I'm interested in your opinion about my bull snake - Page 4

herplovr_bri89 · 11-20-12, 08:45 PM

I highly doubt your all that important

Jay · 11-20-12, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herplovr_bri89

I highly doubt your all that important

My snakes think I'm important. Anyways, moving along now.

iBaman · 11-20-12, 09:00 PM

first mistake: letting someone else's opinion bug you (opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink)
Second: Letting them know their comments bothered you. Don't worry about it. If you think your snake loves you, that's your prerogative. it's not hurting you or the snake. Not to say I think snakes can love or any of that jazz...but seriously, what does it hurt?

Terranaut · 11-20-12, 09:31 PM

I have been doing my best to be serious and to consider the op ,their story ect. But I have been clearly ignored. So now what?? Do I keep trying as I have and bang my head against the wall listening to the bad attitude of the op ? Or will the op realize we are just telling the truth and the fact they are ill or the fact that they are wrong doesn't make this site to blame. Failure to listen is to blame.

Lankyrob · 11-21-12, 04:15 AM

Noone is having a go at a sick little girl - that is just pathetic and if you use your illness as an excuse to act like an *** then you will never get any respect from anyone.

Terranaut · 11-21-12, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBaman

first mistake: letting someone else's opinion bug you (opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink)
Second: Letting them know their comments bothered you. Don't worry about it. If you think your snake loves you, that's your prerogative. it's not hurting you or the snake. Not to say I think snakes can love or any of that jazz...but seriously, what does it hurt?

In this case very little chance of harm but assuming emotions of any kind with a larger snake can be dangerous. Not knowing the true thought process of your pet can end with a bite or worse. Maybe not from a bull but imagine you felt this way about your snake and still did lets say 3 yrs from now. See?
Also the snake is not smart enough to learn a bit of your responces like a dog or cat do. Eg. A dog bares its teeth to another as a warning to stay away yet they come tail wagging and never respond to you baring a big smile. The dog has learned to understand a human response and will understand it. They still bare teeth at other dogs to so they are kinda bilingual. A snake can not ever do this. You must learn when your snake is bearing teeth so to speak. Thats not going to happen if you think it has feelings. This is why we hope the op learns from us and accepts the truth of the matter. This thread started out with teaching not bashing. The op does not understand the nature of both their snake and us.

**Aaron_S** · 11-21-12, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herplovr_bri89

I think its funny how quickly a tirade came when the judgement was pointed at you, don't like it too much do you.

My research came from books, local owners of just about everything imaginable, and a handy thing called Google. And if people didn't have "random theories" in the first place they couldn't prove anything. And since you have never cared for YOUR snake in the manor that I care for MINE its obvious why my snake has a much different and unique behaviour towards me. And i meant NONE OF YOU KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT LEAYA, yet you judge as if you do!!! You might know about bull snakes but you don't know S**T about HER. i asked if her actions were out of the ordinary and all u people did was criticize me for saying it "seemed like" she was doing it for what ever particular reason.

And maybe you should actually read things, if you had you would see i said "you've never THOUGHT of your herps as anything more than a cold beast that would bite you as soon as look at you" not that they actually did, but post to your heart's content

You'll quickly learn, if you stay around, that the "judgement" was pointed at me doesn't bother me. There's nothing to judge. I know what I'm talking about.

You asked your question if your snake was out of the ordinary. Everyone, including myself gave you the simple answer of "no". You disliked this because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. We also backed it up with our own "theories" as you did yourself. You simply can't fathom that you're wrong.

If your snake is SOO different then write a paper and win your nobel prize. I've got two already

Hmm, also, in the quote above you said you used google to make up your theory and then in this post, http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/790281-post31.html you mention you didn't use google. So where did you get the king cobra information again?

**Aaron_S** · 11-21-12, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

Well this seems to have become such an important thread, like all the impressive threads lately full of so much helpful and important information. What is it we are talking about? Oh yes, such an important topic that practically requires someone to correct it instead of just not worrying about it. (Where is that sarcasm button?) Why dont we all gather round and make fun of a young or new person, pick them apart and act like a bunch of bullies. That seems very mature, and Im sure its going to help so many other reptile keepers along the way. Ya, let's use that excuse to make us feel important. Its all for the animals. Do you guys walk through playgrounds so you can push children off the swings too? I know, lets go to the zoo and yell at the penguins for not being able to fly.

How about we do something else fun. Why dont one of you super smart folks fighting the good fight type out your bibliography of the scientific references you have for saying reptiles dont have the capacity for emotion. Just one of you. Something tells me this should be a very short list. And no, I dont mean madly scramble on Google scholar to find some article to put up here. Have any of you actually done any real research at all, or are all you just regurgitating something someone else told you? Ya, I thought so. Because anyone with any kind of intelligence would have seen this thread for what it was immediately; a young girl who loves her snake and was hoping to find a community of other reptile lovers. Unfortunately she found a group who would rather pick apart every new thread. Quick lets all go search for the tiniest little thing in every thread we can say is wrong! Itll make us all feel so smart and impressive!

So because you asked I went looking for papers. Honestly, I haven't done this research in some years so yes I did use google scholar, which kind of sucks cause the papers I want, I have to purchase.

Anyway, here is what I found out and how I understood things. The autonomic nervous system is what essentially controls emotion. As mammals, we have a more developed system that controls our higher emotions that help us navigate complex social behaviour, gives us facial expression etc. Reptiles, snakes in particular, don't have complex social behaviour or facial expressions.

I'll continue looking to find more sources BUT since you've asked and I've complied how about you look to prove my theory of basic instinct in reptiles wrong. It's only fair.

jarich · 11-21-12, 09:26 AM

As I see no point in this thread continuing, and as no one (including you) seems to have gotten the point I was getting at in my post in any way, shape or form, Im not sure about your theory of 'give and take' fairness, Aaron.

However, you know how much I like a good debate, so instead lets start a new thread. PLEASE feel free to let this thread die.

mykee · 11-21-12, 10:15 AM

I agree. This thread needs to die, and the OP needs to fade into oblivion, never to be heard from again. Too much of this **** lately.

herplovr_bri89 · 11-21-12, 03:09 PM

I agree with jarich completely, this thread needs to end, but as for me fading into oblivion don't count on it. I'm not giving you that satisfaction. There aren't enough kind, understanding people on this forum, bye for now all.

Terranaut · 11-21-12, 04:05 PM

This thread died before the end of page one

Ryodraco · 11-22-12, 09:10 PM

I hope I don't upset anyone by replying to this. Basically I wanted to comment on one other comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

IT is not an opinion it is fact that they dont have the brain requirements to "feel" - they run on natural instinct only

While I think giving snakes human emotions is wrong, I think it's also a bit much to claim they run only on instincts. That was once thought to be true for all animals, and now we know it isn't.

Snakes can certainly learn and remember to a limited degree (different individuals favoring different prey, getting used to handling, returning to den sites year after year), so natural instinct is not their only resource. In the sense that aggressiveness and behavior varies from one individual to the next we could even say they have personalities.

As for social behavior, with all the complex social behaviors that have been discovered in lizards in recent years I wouldn't be surprised if some snakes end up being more complex socially than we currently understand them to be.

But does a snake feel like a human? Of course not. I recall one program addressing this where someone stated that they perhaps appreciate being fed, and may tolerate people they are used to more than strangers, but this does not equate to the kind of bond that some seem to seek with snakes. I say we have to appreciate them on their terms, imagining we are important to them as anything more than a provider of food (and perhaps warmth at times) is ultimately only for our own gratification.