Feeding Questions

[StudentoReptile]

I know...we all love debates

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by mykee

Not sure if this is going to be a popular view, but I feed all of my babies live. My adults all eat f/t only due to the fact that I spent years culling out live feeders (removing, not killing). I can speak from a bit of experience with feeding live as I used to feed adults live and feed all my hatchlings their first three or four meals live.
My experience may be different from many of yours, but with regards to me feeding live rats, I am more concerned with raising up rats in my colonies that aren't chewers. They get culled (killed, not removed) I find that a calmer rat is less likley to be aggressive when in a snake bin. I've probably fed 10,000 live rats over 15 years, and not once, not one single time have I had an issue with biting or even scratching.
Regarding live mice, aside from my hatred of them, they can be a little nippier, but even then, a hungry baby ball python is no challenge for a mouse.
My experiences have been favourable, this is not everyones case though.

when i write anything against the cons of live feeding.....

i usually have an adult rat in mind and the damage they can inflict

imo feeding hatchlings live fuzzys,pups,imo pose no threat what so ever to a hatchling

i have NO moral issues,etc,on feeding live mate (a snakes gotta eat )

i feed frozen thawed as its a lot easier than raising a rat colony

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I know...we all love debates

NO we don't......

cheers shaun

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by shaunyboy

NO we don't......

cheers shaun

Speak for yourself!

I will freely admit it. I love to argue.

More specifically, I just like analyzing and picking apart issues that many seem to not (whether by choice or ignorance). It's not necessarily that I like to stir drama or instigate confrontation. I like asking questions that others are not asking themselves and disseminating more accurate information that others seem to not be privy to (for whatever reason).

[Wildside]

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Speak for yourself!

I will freely admit it. I love to argue.

More specifically, I just like analyzing and picking apart issues that many seem to not (whether by choice or ignorance). It's not necessarily that I like to stir drama or instigate confrontation. I like asking questions that others are not asking themselves and disseminating more accurate information that others seem to not be privy to (for whatever reason).

i was being a smart as* mate

yes we do...no we do'nt...yes we do...etc

it was Scottish sarcasim at it's finest

cheers shaun

[Snakefood]

Originally Posted by mykee

Not sure if this is going to be a popular view, but I feed all of my babies live. My adults all eat f/t only due to the fact that I spent years culling out live feeders (removing, not killing). I can speak from a bit of experience with feeding live as I used to feed adults live and feed all my hatchlings their first three or four meals live.
My experience may be different from many of yours, but with regards to me feeding live rats, I am more concerned with raising up rats in my colonies that aren't chewers. They get culled (killed, not removed) I find that a calmer rat is less likley to be aggressive when in a snake bin. I've probably fed 10,000 live rats over 15 years, and not once, not one single time have I had an issue with biting or even scratching.
Regarding live mice, aside from my hatred of them, they can be a little nippier, but even then, a hungry baby ball python is no challenge for a mouse.
My experiences have been favourable, this is not everyones case though.

K, my question is this.......... adult ball pythons should eat rats for many reasons. SO why, as a breeder would you start the babies on mice (live thawed, who cares!!) when they are big enough to start on rat pinks??? I have had to switch 2 ball pythons onto rats from mice now, (and will have to with a third soon) and I just dont get why breeders start them on mice in the first place????

Come on Mykee, give up the goods, WHY feed baby balls mice at all??

[mykee]

I find that babies are more receptive to live mice than live rats. So the first 2 or 3 meals are live mice which they readily accept. After which, I switch them to rats and they are off to the races for the rest of their lives!

[Snakefood]

ahh, the breeder I have gotten my BP's from still has them on fresh killed mice by the time they come home to me, and I have a hell of a time getting them to accept thier first rat as they are so used to mice!!

So you already have them switched to rats before you let them go??

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by mykee

I find that babies are more receptive to live mice than live rats. So the first 2 or 3 meals are live mice which they readily accept. After which, I switch them to rats and they are off to the races for the rest of their lives!

Same here.

I have had the best luck starting off baby BPs with adult mice, not hoppers, not fuzzies...adult mice. People like to complain "But they have such SKINNY necks! They can't POSSIBLY swallow an adult mouse!"

Yes...they can. And they do it every time, too. They just ignore hoppers and fuzzies half the time.

[exwizard]

I am not a breeder nor do I play one on TV. I only live with one. That being said, I can only tell you what I've observed from him. I believe he starts with mice because for their size, there's a whole lot more action from them, further enticing the snake. Now, I recently bought a baby Burm from him and at the time, he had a couple of meals in him so when I got him, he had not been switched yet. A few days later, I tried to feed him a hopper because from what I understood, that's what he'd been on. Well... he didn't want anything to do with it. As a result, I now have a couple of fugitives. Out of frustration, I fed him a rat pinkie/fuzzy and he took it. I agree. Rats are preferable and if the baby is big enough for a ray pinkie, he should start out with rays. Its much easier when they are babies than when they ate sub-adult like Mick the mouse eater Irian Jaya.

[exwizard]

Other breeders could have different reasons however.

[Snakefood]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Same here.

I have had the best luck starting off baby BPs with adult mice, not hoppers, not fuzzies...adult mice. People like to complain "But they have such SKINNY necks! They can't POSSIBLY swallow an adult mouse!"

Yes...they can. And they do it every time, too. They just ignore hoppers and fuzzies half the time.

Yes, the babies come home to me eating fresh killed adult mice, and then I switch them first to fresh killed large rat fuzzies, or small hoppers (same size as adult mice) then to F/T rat fuzzies.

Just while the snake and I are having the battle of wills I always think to myself, why weren't they just started on rats in the first place........now I know!!

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by Snakefood

Yes, the babies come home to me eating fresh killed adult mice, and then I switch them first to fresh killed large rat fuzzies, or small hoppers (same size as adult mice) then to F/T rat fuzzies.

Just while the snake and I are having the battle of wills I always think to myself, why weren't they just started on rats in the first place........now I know!!

Well, mind you, this was mostly while I worked at a petstore. Live rat pups were very scarce, and management usually didn't like us using them up when we did have them, rather preferring we sell them to customers. Not my choice.

If I was in the practice of raising and keeping large numbers of ball pythons, I would do everything in my power to get them on rats, I assure you!

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by exwizard

I am not a breeder nor do I play one on TV. I only live with one. That being said, I can only tell you what I've observed from him. I believe he starts with mice because for their size, there's a whole lot more action from them, further enticing the snake. Now, I recently bought a baby Burm from him and at the time, he had a couple of meals in him so when I got him, he had not been switched yet. A few days later, I tried to feed him a hopper because from what I understood, that's what he'd been on. Well... he didn't want anything to do with it. As a result, I now have a couple of fugitives. Out of frustration, I fed him a rat pinkie/fuzzy and he took it. I agree. Rats are preferable and if the baby is big enough for a ray (rat) pinkie, he should start out with rays (rats). Its much easier when they are babies than when they ate (are) sub-adult like Mick the mouse eater Irian Jaya.

Typo corrections were added in parentheses.