Animal Planet/Rattlesnake republic - on rattlensnake roundups

[forza_inter]

Originally Posted by infernalis

This seems a good place to bring this up, The very first time I saw "Whale Wars" I was disgusted with the Japanese, after I thought more about it, I became disgusted with the sea shepherds.

See, to people in India, the cow is sacred, to the rest of us a cow is sacred as a yummy burger. Some cultures hold pigs on a pedestal while others barbecue them.

so who in the hell are we to judge those who eat "non conventional meats"?? just because we think it's "bad" to eat whale, to the Japanese whale is just another fish. (Yes I know whales are mammals) but my point is, what is OK in one culture, may not be OK in another.

again....i have no problem with those cultural beliefs....but how many people in texas do you see worshiping cows or pigs?

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by forza_inter

again....i have no problem with those cultural beliefs....but how many people in texas do you see worshiping cows or pigs?

I don't, point is the people who attend these roundups certainly feel a whole lot different about the snakes than we do.

all I can do is provide the best care I can to my captive animals, and educate others to the best of my ability, but I doubt I could stop the roundup if I tried.

I also quite firmly believe that posting this thread on a reptile lovers forum is just asking for nasty posts..... It would be no different than posting recipes for roast dog on a cocker spaniel forum.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

Okay fair enough, but do you destroy or throw away a product for selling just because of a small flaw that you could have fixed? Even if you couldn't sell it for the same amount as if it was perfect?

shoot I don't want to debate with you, but yes I would give it away or discard it. My mentor taught me Condition is everything! Lets say I received an old glass bottle, while in my care it was damaged. I would simply do the same as the op get rid of it because it has lost all value and I try to make a living out of it. Like I said before if I kept every item I would be homeless.

[NennaMeerkat]

Originally Posted by jay0133

shoot I don't want to debate with you, but yes I would give it away or discard it. My mentor taught me Condition is everything! Lets say I received an old glass bottle, while in my care it was damaged. I would simply do the same as the op get rid of it because it has lost all value and I try to make a living out of it. Like I said before if I kept every item I would be homeless.

Ah okay Jay I understand Not trying to debate...just trying to make a point and antiques just aren't the same as animals. At least in this case.

[forza_inter]

Originally Posted by infernalis

I don't, point is the people who attend these roundups certainly feel a whole lot different about the snakes than we do.

all I can do is provide the best care I can to my captive animals, and educate others to the best of my ability, but I doubt I could stop the roundup if I tried.

I also quite firmly believe that posting this thread on a reptile lovers forum is just asking for nasty posts..... It would be no different than posting recipes for roast dog on a cocker spaniel forum.

of course they feel differently....they are ignorant. most of those people hate snakes and think are an evil menace sent by the devil to kill mass amounts of humans.....ignorance in my eyes is no excuse for this disgusting event

LOL and full points for the cocker spaniel comparison

[Jay]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

Ah okay Jay I understand Not trying to debate...just trying to make a point and antiques just aren't the same as animals. At least in this case.

No they are not. I'm just trying to look at it from a business sense. I could discard a broken bottle but I will do everything in my power to help a broken snake rather it by a $10 nix treatment or a $100+vet bill.

[NennaMeerkat]

Originally Posted by jay0133

No they are not. I'm just trying to look at it from a business sense. I could discard a broken bottle but I will do everything in my power to help a broken snake rather it by a $10 nix treatment or a $100+vet bill.

I just knew that there were people that would sell a bottle with a nick or blemish in it, scuffed paint, or what not even if they could not get top dollar for it...or even giving it away to someone who could appreciate it even if it is flawed. Thought you might be one of those people, but totally cool if you aren't.

Also I know that you take great care of your animals...all of them

[totheend]

Originally Posted by infernalis

so who in the hell are we to judge those who eat "non conventional meats"?? just because we think it's "bad" to eat whale, to the Japanese whale is just another fish. (Yes I know whales are mammals) but my point is, what is OK in one culture, may not be OK in another.

Thanks....you took the words right outta my mouth!

[Jay]

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

I just knew that there were people that would sell a bottle with a nick or blemish in it, scuffed paint, or what not even if they could not get top dollar for it...or even giving it away to someone who could appreciate it even if it is flawed. Thought you might be one of those people, but totally cool if you aren't.

Also I know that you take great care of your animals...all of them

I most certainly give my damaged goods to someone who respects them. My mom likes to put old rusty things in her garden, she takes good care of my unsellable items lol. I doubt she even know the value of them.

[stephanbakir]

The roundup looks cruel in my eyes, but I'm looking at it from the outside, and I don't know of any scientific evidence that its tearing a hole in the population so I'll wait before passing judgement.

[Dehlida]

The topic wasn't started with the intent to start a riot or ruffle feathers or to get a rise. There is a huge segment of the reptile hobby that doesn't have a huge problem with the roundups. There is a huge segment that doesn't mind killing off a snake when it gets sick.

Before I post what I'm getting at I want to toss out a quick bit about sea shepards and whale wars since it was brought up. This is an absolutely great example of the same thing I am trying to prove with rattlesnakes. They are a dietary staple of the area- the same way whales and other game fish are in Japan. When people first came to America they may not have had a ton of the same foods we have available today- I bet a lot had to live off what they can catch easily and prepare simply. Enter rattlesnakes- an extremely successful animal in abudance that when removed keeps them, their families, and their livestock all that much safer, good trade off, and this is passed down as tradition in the south. Now look at Japan- an island based culture (island cultures naturally live off the sea), they now have access to other foods. Does that change the fact that sea live is still deeply rooted in Japanese culture? Absolutely not, does this mean they are cruel evil people for making a living the same way they have for hundreds of years? No.

The point I'm getting at- and the original purpose of this question, is to poll a small portion of widespread reptile enthusiasts about their feelings. I did this for multiple reasons. The first was to see what kind of response you would give to a fellow reptile enthusiast- which turns out is very hostile and negative. I was pretty appauled that people jump to such extremes and try to bully me into some sort of view that conforms with them. The second reason- is to see how people felt about the actual hunters themselves- again, very hostile and little respect. I'd be willing to bet that most of the hunters on the show have more respect and love for the reptiles than most in the hobby today and I'd also bet they know a solid bit about snakes too.

Now this brings me to the last part of the reason. I wanted to get the feel for the attitude of the reptile community. The more forums I become a part of, the more hobbyists I meet, the more hands I shake I realize one simple fact. The reptile community is harsh, hostile, and negative. We can blame animal planet all we want, we can blame ignorance, stupidity, petco, anything on the planet for the way reptiles are being handled in America. The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby. Until people learn the world doesn't revolve around their opinion and their way of doing things, and extremes we will never better this hobby.

I read a topic not long ago about someone burying a snake with a pinkie inside of a bag, under sand. I read multiple pages of people bashing bost the OP and the source the information was from. Rather than educating the person through logic, or arguing rationally based on scientific facts, people felt the need to act arrogant. I talk to so many new reptile keepers as part of my business. A vast majority of people are terrified to get into reptiles as they don't know where to start. The industry is scary and I see people walk out of herp shops all day long confused to the point of no repair.

Baby steps people. I'd rather help someone grow in their knowledge and understanding of these creatures one step at a time than bashing them for letting their first corn snake die. I'd rather a few snakes die along the way- in the process of educating and helping a new keeper learn and grow, than force them out of the hobby all together.

[stephanbakir]

There are different types of reptile forums, this one happens to be a nice sometimes quiet community where the majority of people think of their reptiles as pets/family and are all for spending money taking their pets to the vet, even if the cost might surpass the commercial value of the animal.
If you post something like what you posted on this type of forum, thats what you should expect. Not saying that its 100% right, but... damn...

[Dehlida]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

There are different types of reptile forums, this one happens to be a nice sometimes quiet community where the majority of people think of their reptiles as pets/family and are all for spending money taking their pets to the vet, even if the cost might surpass the commercial value of the animal.
If you post something like what you posted on this type of forum, thats what you should expect. Not saying that its 100% right, but... damn...

The sad part is- the vast majority of the people I encounter feel this way. The vast majority of "reptile enthusiasts" working at the pet stores and whatnot. It isn't a matter of "this forum" I can list off several other forums who will give about the same response.

I had a good friend of mine tell me a story about how she got into snakes. She had one as a kid, when it died due to bad husbandry she got yelled at she all but gave up. Went to college still with a love of animals and ended up getting a great room-mate who had a snake. This prompted her to try again, since she didn't have the same people ready to yell down her back. She purchased a snake from a reptile breeder, and it managed to end up dead due to a flaw in caging. Instead of ranting on her, he sold her another snake, helped her correct flaws and tried again. This one ended up getting loose and eaten by a cat. Tried again- this time things hit home. She has a few snakes now, all of which are fed top of the line food that she knows the source from herself. She buys probably some of the best caging money can buy for them. Spends every extra cent she has on them. If he would have gotten upset with her- she would have never even considered getting another snake and would have dropped it. Now she has a few, all of which accompany her on educational talks and whatnot, and she's one of the most enthusiastic and knowledgeable people I know.

[SnakeyJay]

Everybody makes mistakes in husbandry sometimes, thats trial and error but if your,killing a few in a row by accident, or cage defects, then thats something that can be avoided by doing proper research before the purchase and cage inspections before use. X

[forza_inter]

Originally Posted by Dehlida

The topic wasn't started with the intent to start a riot or ruffle feathers or to get a rise. There is a huge segment of the reptile hobby that doesn't have a huge problem with the roundups. There is a huge segment that doesn't mind killing off a snake when it gets sick.

Before I post what I'm getting at I want to toss out a quick bit about sea shepards and whale wars since it was brought up. This is an absolutely great example of the same thing I am trying to prove with rattlesnakes. They are a dietary staple of the area- the same way whales and other game fish are in Japan. When people first came to America they may not have had a ton of the same foods we have available today- I bet a lot had to live off what they can catch easily and prepare simply. Enter rattlesnakes- an extremely successful animal in abudance that when removed keeps them, their families, and their livestock all that much safer, good trade off, and this is passed down as tradition in the south. Now look at Japan- an island based culture (island cultures naturally live off the sea), they now have access to other foods. Does that change the fact that sea live is still deeply rooted in Japanese culture? Absolutely not, does this mean they are cruel evil people for making a living the same way they have for hundreds of years? No.

The point I'm getting at- and the original purpose of this question, is to poll a small portion of widespread reptile enthusiasts about their feelings. I did this for multiple reasons. The first was to see what kind of response you would give to a fellow reptile enthusiast- which turns out is very hostile and negative. I was pretty appauled that people jump to such extremes and try to bully me into some sort of view that conforms with them. The second reason- is to see how people felt about the actual hunters themselves- again, very hostile and little respect. I'd be willing to bet that most of the hunters on the show have more respect and love for the reptiles than most in the hobby today and I'd also bet they know a solid bit about snakes too.

Now this brings me to the last part of the reason. I wanted to get the feel for the attitude of the reptile community. The more forums I become a part of, the more hobbyists I meet, the more hands I shake I realize one simple fact. The reptile community is harsh, hostile, and negative. We can blame animal planet all we want, we can blame ignorance, stupidity, petco, anything on the planet for the way reptiles are being handled in America. The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby. Until people learn the world doesn't revolve around their opinion and their way of doing things, and extremes we will never better this hobby.

I read a topic not long ago about someone burying a snake with a pinkie inside of a bag, under sand. I read multiple pages of people bashing bost the OP and the source the information was from. Rather than educating the person through logic, or arguing rationally based on scientific facts, people felt the need to act arrogant. I talk to so many new reptile keepers as part of my business. A vast majority of people are terrified to get into reptiles as they don't know where to start. The industry is scary and I see people walk out of herp shops all day long confused to the point of no repair.

Baby steps people. I'd rather help someone grow in their knowledge and understanding of these creatures one step at a time than bashing them for letting their first corn snake die. I'd rather a few snakes die along the way- in the process of educating and helping a new keeper learn and grow, than force them out of the hobby all together.

first of all....since im pretty sure you were referring to me about this.....nobody was trying to "bully you into a view that conforms with them" everyone has their own opinion and they are entitled to that.

what did you really expect coming into a reptile forum full of reptile enthusiasts and bringing up a topic like the rattlesnake round ups? hugs and kisses?

"The reptile community is harsh, hostile, and negative. We can blame animal planet all we want, we can blame ignorance, stupidity, petco, anything on the planet for the way reptiles are being handled in America. The end of the day- reptile keepers are what is and WILL kill this hobby."

question....did you go into every forum that you joined and bring up the same topic (rattlesnake round up)? if so then you have NO REASON to be surprised at any hostile comments or negative responses you got from people. for you to say that the reptile community is harsh, hostile and negative is extremely bias. but....your entitled to your own opinion

and while i agree that there are many people that own snakes that probably shouldnt, for whatever reason, to say that snake owners will be the demise of the hobby is insulting to every snake owner that properly cares and loves their animal (including myself). Especially when the ignorance in pet stores all over North America is as bad as it is.