Balls on Aspen....

End Times · 12-14-05, 01:08 PM

I've just switched all the balls in my rack from newspaper to aspen.

I was wondering about feeding on the aspen. I feed all my balls in their rubbermaids, and was thinking that some of those aspen pieces are pretty small. Has anyone ever had a snake accidently ingest a piece of aspen when they were feeding? Should I worry about a snake become impacted from feeding on aspen?

I know alot of the big breeders choose aspen, so assume it must be safe as I doubt the guys with high numbers of snakes remove them to separate tubs for feeding. Just wanted to have some reassurance I suppose from those that use it, and would like to hear from anyone whom may of had a snake consume a piece while gulping down a rodent....

NocturnalBC · 12-14-05, 01:29 PM

Hey End Times,
I love aspen! I used newspaper for a short while and found I had to clean the whole cage after a mess, with aspen it is a spot clean here and there with a major change every month or so.

I fed my snake a couple of times on it and decided after that I was never going to do it again, I didn't see any bug chunks go down but there were still little dust pieces(if that makes sense) and it just didn't seem like a worth while risk. Some may differ but I know for my it wasn't worth a huge chunk going down.

End Times · 12-14-05, 01:34 PM

Yeah, that's why I'm switching, because I too found you had to clean the entire tub after every mess. Aspen just seems easier.

Hmmm. So you were concerned about impaction? Do you remove each and every snake to a feeding container then? Seems to be a hassle....

NocturnalBC · 12-14-05, 01:41 PM

I wasn't just worried about impaction, I was just worried about that crap going threw his system. Impaction or not it can't be good having that stuff go threw their system so for me it just isn't worth the risk.

Yes I pull him out everytime I feed him and place him in a feeding container, I find it no hassle at all so I don't think you'll have a problem with it. It's funny because I've done it so long now that my snake knows it's feeding time as soon as he is placed in the feeding area so that may even trigger his feeding response.

End Times · 12-14-05, 09:48 PM

Makes sense. And sure, it'd be no hassle for one, but I'm feeding 5 balls, and plan on acquiring even more snakes as time goes by. I can't see myself, or anyone, moving dozens of snakes from their tubs to separate feeding containers every feeding day....

But then again, I don't want anyone getting backed up. What about you breeders who have several snakes on aspen? Do you guys remove them to feed?

arash · 12-14-05, 10:34 PM

if you only have a few snakes then yeah sure take them out and feed them on aspen but i think if they eat a pound of aspen that would be a great deal i mean they eat rat with skin hair and bones dont they??

YoungBuck · 12-15-05, 01:22 AM

Most big breeders use newspaper or paper towel and not aspen for that very reason. Newspaper is cheaper then aspen. And the aspen in a snakes system could very well build up. It's not a smart idea to feed on. But if you want to take the chances of your snake getting impacted...have at it. IMO...not a good idea. Feed in the rubbermaid

End Times · 12-15-05, 07:11 AM

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to take risks with my snakes. I've only got 5 now, so moving to a feeding tub wouldn't be that big a deal, but I'm refering to when I have 12, 20, 30. Then what?

I'd really love to hear how someone with alot of snakes and uses aspen deals with this issue. There's got to be an easier way. For example, I know Mark Mandic uses aspen, and he has countless balls.

I've heard on offering the prey item above a sheet of newspaper on top of the aspen is an alternative, but my snakes tend to feed agressively, especially one in particular, and ends up dragging the prey all about so not sure if that would work for me....

End Times · 12-15-05, 09:49 PM

Well, thanks for the replies all.

I emailed Mark Mandic and he was good enough to take the time to get back to me.

Mark stated to me that he has been using aspen for many years without problems, and that if feeding live it should be alright as the aspen shouldn't stick to dry, live prey. If however you feed frozen, which may become damp when thawing, there would be more concern about the substrate sticking to the prey item.

As only one of my snakes is on F/T, and the rest on live, I'm just gonna feed everyone live from now on right on the aspen.

Just thought I'd post this up in case anyone was interested for their own snakes on aspen and was following along.

YoungBuck · 12-16-05, 01:47 AM

Not trying to rag on you bro, but feeding live is a real hazard to your snakes. Mice like to scratch and bite...hard~! It is much more efficient and safe to feed your snakes F/T. Especially with the size that female balls need to get to before breeding, feeding rats would be alot more cost efficient too. Though I am just making an assumption that you will be breeding them. I hope you consider feeding F/T rats instead of live mice. Good luck~!

End Times · 12-16-05, 08:50 AM

The one on F/T is on rats, the live eaters on mice. I am well aware of the risks involved in feeding live, but of my five snakes I've only managed to convert one to F/T (two are recent arrivals who were already on live though, so haven't tried with them yet). Of the remaining two, I attempted F/T for four months straight before breaking down and offering live, since then one's been eating like a champ. The last of the five has yet to eat anything since coming into my care (I thought maybe he'd eaten once, but after reviewing his feed-shed records apparently I was mistaken).

And as for the "feeding rats to grow the females" comment, although many feel rats are a superior food choice, there is no evidence that they are any more nutritious than mice. They are merely more convenient as a single prey item can be offered to an adult snake rather than several smaller mice at once.

With my growing collection, that I intend to have grow even more, I've been contemplating the breeding of mice as I only have a few snakes. If ever I get to the point where I have dozens of balls, I'll look into breeding rats.

Just to clarify, I wholeheartedly agree that F/T rats is the best choice for a BP, but in reality, many balls are picky buggers who will take nothing but live. And if I must feed live, I'd sooner feed several mice who are incapable of doing the damage that a adult rat would should it decide to fight back. I'm not saying mice are risk free, just that a live mouse can't fight like a live adult rat can.

-okapi- · 12-16-05, 10:05 AM

The breeders at VIP use aspen on all snakes except hatchlings. The hatchlings are kept on paper towels. They feed all their pythons prekilled with long forceps, holding the prey about 1 inch off the bedding, that way when the snake strikes it wont get a mouthful of bedding. The same can be done with live mice by holding them by the base of the tail. BTW, Did you try braining the F/T prey?

galad · 12-16-05, 11:09 AM

Seems to me end times that you were not going to be satisfied untill you heard from someone that feeding them on the aspen is ok. Why bother asking if your not going to take peoples opinions?
Just because a few people say its ok it doesnt neccessarly mean its right. Yea sure maybe they haven't had any problemes....yet. But impactation could happen when feeding a snake on loose substrate like that. Ive seen some pretty nasty sharp peices in aspen bedding before. My point is just because some one who owns a bunch of snakes does something a certain way. It doesnt mean its the right way, some people are stuborn and dont listen to others advice because they feel they know what they are taking about right or wrong.
Like youngebuck said most big breeders use paper towel or newspaper because of the risk of impactation. Wouldn't you rather side with the majority rather then the few?????

peace

End Times · 12-16-05, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Seems to me end times that you were not going to be satisfied untill you heard from someone that feeding them on the aspen is ok. Why bother asking if your not going to take peoples opinions?

Not so. What I wanted was to hear from someone who ACTUALLY uses aspen and who ACTUALLY has several snakes. I wanted to see what those who don't have the time to remove each and every snake in their collection into separate feeding tubs do. I would of gladly heard alternatives to feeding on the aspen. Such as the point I made about some people putting a sheet of paper over top of the aspen before offering a meal. Although I feel that wouldn't work for me, due to my snakes dragging their prey to and fro, that was the type of suggestions I was looking for.

That being said, I would hardly consider Mark Mandic just "someone who owns a bunch of snakes" as you put it. Many people consider him the "guru of ball pythons" in Canada, myself included. If someone as reputable as himself feeds on aspen, than I see no reason why I shouldn't. Is it 100% risk free? Maybe not, but when one owns a large collection it just isn't feasible to be removing each and every snake on feeding day. And as I plan on having a large collection, that is something I must consider.

Quote:

The breeders at VIP use aspen on all snakes except hatchlings. The hatchlings are kept on paper towels. They feed all their pythons prekilled with long forceps, holding the prey about 1 inch off the bedding, that way when the snake strikes it wont get a mouthful of bedding. The same can be done with live mice by holding them by the base of the tail. BTW, Did you try braining the F/T prey?

Good point. Pre-killed wouldn't be damp, and so could likely be fed on aspen with less risk than F/T. And as for the braining of the F/T, I assume you're talking about my one problem feeder, and yes I did. He seems to show some interest in live, but just won't strike. When offered F/T he just won't even look at it. I've yet to try P/K with that particular snake however....