border
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
 

Go Back   sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum > General Information Forums > Field Herping

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-12-05, 01:16 PM   #16
KrokadilyanGuy3
Member
 
KrokadilyanGuy3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan-2003
Location: Outside of Austin Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 848
Send a message via AIM to KrokadilyanGuy3 Send a message via Yahoo to KrokadilyanGuy3


I felt I should add this.

I have in fact been 'chased' by a cottonmouth. Whether I provoked it or not, the animal in fact hurled itself over to me several times in several directions, while taking extravagant snaps towards me. All in the while standing several feet from the animal at any given time.

Now I have dealt with thousands of cottonmouths out in the field and this has been the only 'chase' I've ever encountered, but just because it rarely happens doesn't mean it won't,(Or just because it's never happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't) and on that note, a simple push with the paddle will be suffice.
Zane
KrokadilyanGuy3 is offline  
Old 04-12-05, 09:22 PM   #17
dannyc
Member
 
dannyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec-2004
Location: Central Virginia
Age: 70
Posts: 146
Send a message via MSN to dannyc Send a message via Yahoo to dannyc
Also it should be known that they are aggresive dureing mating season, July and August. I had one come at me and checked it out to find out why.
__________________
1.1 Corns, 0.0.1 W/C Black Rat snake, 0.0.1 W/C Rough Green snake, 1.5 Pekin Ducks, 0.1 GSD
dannyc is offline  
Old 04-13-05, 09:08 AM   #18
Ontario_herper
Member
 
Ontario_herper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep-2002
Location: Ontario
Posts: 233
Send a message via Yahoo to Ontario_herper
Is there a particular answer that you were looking for? You seem to be disputing people’s responses to the question that you asked on a public forum. Many of the people that posted an answer to your question have forgotten more than you or your hubby will ever know about snakes.

If there is a particular answer that you’re looking for feel free to let me know. I’ll post that same answer. You can then stop spewing out the nonsense that you seem to think is factual.

If not, just keep paddling your yak and don’t worry about the snakes. You’ll be fine!
__________________
David Smith
Ontario_herper is offline  
Old 04-13-05, 09:48 PM   #19
crimsonking
Member
 
crimsonking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2002
Location: Tampa,FL U.S.A.
Posts: 1,945
Country:
If you want to defend yourself then education is the best weapon.
That said, some individual snakes seem much less tolerant of our intrusion than others. The key there is the word individual.
I have seen many cottonmouths here in FL and while they are a different ssp. I am assuming (perhaps wrongly) that they act pretty much the same.
When photographing them I must be aware that they generally will remain quite motionless--until they have had their fill of my intrusion. Again, they are individuals and seem to have a threshold each of their own. Some I have had to move around for pics and moved them again and again with no problems. Others gaped and struck when I was still 15 feet away from them. Most will gape (until you get your camera ready ) and not strike at all. If allowed a "backdoor" escape many will flee after they are at their limit of intrusion or whatever.
I have never been chased by a cotton, but have had very agressive snakes like racers and coachwhips stand their ground and force the issue so to speak.
A lightweight stick say 3' or so that you can handle easily would be my choice to "fend off" an agressive snake or to gently move one off a path if I had no choice. Your paddle would work I suppose in any case.
Be careful and learn all you can about when they may be actively breeding in your area as they can be more agressive and less aware of you.
A shot or two for ya:



:Mark
__________________
Surrender Dorothy!
www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Last edited by crimsonking; 04-16-05 at 09:36 PM..
crimsonking is offline  
Old 04-14-05, 01:11 PM   #20
nburgmei
Member
 
nburgmei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep-2004
Location: Indiana, USA
Age: 40
Posts: 32
"This dangerous semi-aquatic snake is truly an aggressive reptile that will stand its ground or even approach an intruder."

I personally take exception to this statement. Particularly the "truly an aggressive reptile". I'm not sure I've ever met an "aggressive" snake. I've met defensive snakes before, but I can't recall ever being sought after by any species and attacked.

In my experience cottonmouths are one of the least "aggressive" snakes I've come into contact with. Of the 35 specimens (which isn't many) I've been around in my lifetime only 3 have struck. All three of those had taken a bit of a disliking to being moved around with a stick for pictures. That's not to say there might not be a somewhat more defensive snake out there, but this is just my experience.

Cottonmouths have a bad reputation as one of the mean snakes, but from what I've seen they're much less likely to bite than most others I've experienced. They are certainly willing to stand their ground, but their reluctance to bite has seemed to be fairly common amongst those I've been around. I'm not endorsing going out and testing this theory with your bare hands, but cottons would definitely be low on my list as far as "aggressive" snakes were concerned.

Nick - On top of that list, thus far, a cornered blue racer. That was one heck of a defense.

Last edited by nburgmei; 04-14-05 at 01:13 PM..
nburgmei is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 04-16-05, 07:21 PM   #21
reelthing4u
Member
 
Join Date: Mar-2005
Location: pelion sc
Age: 55
Posts: 26
putting my two pennys in

on reptile wild .they when in to the swamps in sc and got 3 wild cottonmouths .the tried to get the snake to bite by stepping by it .none did .then they use a fake foot and stepped on it and couldn't get them to bite the foot .then they used a fake hand to pick them up and this is the only time they got them to bite.research show this, but not that all cottonmouth would act they samebut to show they are getting a bad rap
reelthing4u is offline  
Old 04-16-05, 08:07 PM   #22
Jungle Jen
Member
 
Jungle Jen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 318
Send a message via MSN to Jungle Jen Send a message via Yahoo to Jungle Jen
I do not have any experience with these snakes in the wild, but I have dealt with them in captivity. My friend was going to feed his, and when he opened the sliding glass door, both snakes shot out and gave chase. This was the first time they had done this, but it only takes once. (My friend did hook the beasties back into their cage without incident.)

PS - I guess pictures 2, 3, and 5
__________________
:eb: JJ and the Zoo
Jungle Jen is offline  
Old 04-18-05, 09:58 AM   #23
shaggybill
Member
 
Join Date: Feb-2003
Location: Rockwell, NC
Age: 43
Posts: 351
Jungle Jen, I would suspect that the snakes were intent on getting out of the cage, but were not actually intending to give chase. Your friend probably just happened to be in the way.

In my experience with cottonmouths, I have never ever seen one that "attacked" without provocation. 99.9999% of these snakes will go out of their way to get out of your way and want nothing to do with you. And if they do approach you, its out of curiousity, not aggression.
__________________
www.churchcreek.net

What do ya wanna bet I can throw this football over them mountains?
shaggybill is offline  
Old 05-07-05, 11:01 AM   #24
SCReptiles
Member
 
SCReptiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Age: 52
Posts: 1,562
I think it’s a misnomer to label any North American snake as aggressive. Aggressive means the animal will attack and pursue humans with provocation. There are no north American snakes that fit that criteria. Everything we have will flee before fighting. Most will turn tail and run, a few (edb, cottonmouth, wdb) will stand and face an adversary, but still back away rather then attack.

Snakes only bite for food or defense. Obviously they have no intention of eating a human. So all bites will be defensive. When they have the option to retreat, they will take. No snake wants to waste venom on defense, they all want it for food. I believe Zane, but I believe the snake perceived its escape route to be cut off and it was trying to move him out of the way. Snakes have virtually no eye site. If it felt cornered then, yes, you can expect prolific strikes. Often dummy strikes, meaning they have no intention of biting. Only faking it for the fear factor and hoping to bluff the advisory back.

Michtx, you have been given some good and some bad information. Do not spray the snakes with any gas. Gas is designed to blind an attacker, you are attempted to blind an attacker that does not relay on eye site in the first place. I have been hunting cottonmouths since I was 5 or 6 years old. So I have about 25 years of experience. I have read everything printed on the animals and I have learned even more on my own. I have found them in places the books tell you they do not live. Just trying to assure you that I know what I am talking about. When a cotton sees you, if it is awake and alert, it will hit the water and be gone immediately. If it is not alert and you happen close enough to it, if you just back off, you would have no problems with it. In a worst case scenario, you can use a stick, snake hook, boat ore to push it toward the water…it will take off. I have never seen research on this, but when attacked cottons will viciously defend themselves. They will move in any direction and strike with vigor. dowsing a snake with gas will provoke an attack from an otherwise peaceful animals. It can’t see where you are, so its going to lash out in all directions and perhaps tag your foot. I appreciate your attitude. Many would simply want to expatriate them from the area. If you are serious about sharing the water, you don’t need to do anything over then keep an eye out not to crowd them. thank you---

Post like this always remind me of this famous quote from the pope of snakes.

Attitude, rather than disposition is more definitive of serpent behavior. From the moment they emerge into this world until they complete their life cycle, their attitude is "Don't tread on me. I am well equipped to defend myself, but content to pass through life unnoticed. I mean no harm to anything or anyone that our creator has not provided as my bill of fare; I am self sustaining and I like it that way, please pass me by." - W.E. Haast
__________________
www.SCReptiles.com 2.2 Crotalus adamanteus. 2.2 Crotalus h. atricaudatus. 2.2 Crotalus h. horridus. 1.1 Agkistrodon p. piscivorus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. contortrix. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. mokasen. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. laticinctus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. pictigaster. Agkistrodon c. phaeogaster. 1.2 Sistrurus miliarius barbouri. 1.1 Micrurus fulvius. 0.0.1 Micrurus fulvius tenere
SCReptiles is offline  
Old 05-07-05, 11:51 AM   #25
galad
Member
 
Join Date: Sep-2004
Location: wpg
Age: 41
Posts: 497
Send a message via MSN to galad
LMFAO.

I cannot beleave what I have been reading here.

It seems that if you keep snakes in captivity and read some books about them you know every single thing about them.

Wow must be nice. Too bad its not true at all.

The woman was asking for a way to deter a snake from biting her, she was not asking you to comment on whether or not you thought they would actually persue her.
What makes you all experts on these snakes?
I find it hard to beleave that even if you have kept them in captivity for decades it gives you no idea of how the snake will act in the wild.

This site is full of know it alls and its really sick!

Her husband is a park ranger im sure he knows the difference between the a cotton mouth and a look alike. It's part of his job.
If he says one came up and attacked him, then it must have. Why lie about it?
An owner of a rattle snake ranch even said they can become aggressive. Why would he lie?

If your in the water on you kyak and a snake approaches you just slap the water really hard with your paddle acouple times im sure it will make him think twice of comming after you.

Peace

sorry you had to go through all that nonsence

ws
__________________
"Hey! A shooting star...wait...dang, must've just turned my head to fast."
- Boomhauer
galad is offline  
Login to remove ads
Old 05-07-05, 01:59 PM   #26
SCReptiles
Member
 
SCReptiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Age: 52
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
What makes you all experts on these snakes?
I have studied them IN THE WILD for about 25 years. As noted. I have a Bachelor of Science degree. I have worked along sided dr Gordon W. Schuett author of biology of the vipers http://eaglemountainpublishing.com/p..._of_the_vipers I have studied and collected Western, Eastern, and Florida sub-species. I have kept them in captivity for about 15 years. I have breed them in captivity. I have raised them from birth to 4 feet. Should I go on?

Quote:
Her husband is a park ranger im sure he knows the difference between the a cotton mouth and a look alike. It's part of his job.
In 2001 when they outlawed exotic venomous in AL, a state wildlife officer came to my friend’s lab to process the paperwork for his grandfathered animals. She identified his saw scale viper as a rattlesnake. Just because they knew someone and got a government job does not mean they are proficient.

Galad, continue LMFAO. Seems to me you already laughed your f’n brain out. Your comments are out of place and offensive. You struck me as the type that lacks the metal to deal with this type of animal, so you like to sit ideally by with a ribbon snake in your lap and cast dispersions on the people that are on the forefront.
__________________
www.SCReptiles.com 2.2 Crotalus adamanteus. 2.2 Crotalus h. atricaudatus. 2.2 Crotalus h. horridus. 1.1 Agkistrodon p. piscivorus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. contortrix. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. mokasen. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. laticinctus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. pictigaster. Agkistrodon c. phaeogaster. 1.2 Sistrurus miliarius barbouri. 1.1 Micrurus fulvius. 0.0.1 Micrurus fulvius tenere
SCReptiles is offline  
Old 05-07-05, 08:42 PM   #27
michtx
Member
 
Join Date: Apr-2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 5
Thank you SCReptiles for your response. I’ve continued to read replies to my post, but had decided against responding further. I was put off by some of the more belittling responses, however I realize that is the risk of communicating with strangers in this type of forum. Galad, I thank you for your support, but it is difficult at best to determine who is a genuine authority, and who is the 14 year old, self appointed “know it all”. IMHO, it is best to treat everyone with respect, then take everything with a grain of salt and try to authenticate facts by checking them against different sources. SCReptiles, I agree that I have been given some good advice and some bad. I wanted to update my situation and thank those who responded in a helpful spirit with educational information.

I have kayaked the same stretch of creek three times since my initial cottonmouth encounter. Once with no snake sightings, a second time encountering only a very small juvenile (less than 6” long) whom I spotted just as he/she left a rocky embankment and headed towards the bottom of the creek before I lost sight, I don’t know what kind of snake it was.

Yesterday, I was carrying my gear to a put in at an area of the creek close to where I had my first encounter. I spotted two smaller individuals, no more than 24” long. Immediately upon registering my presence, they left the limestone ledge and launched into the water. They carried themselves fairly high above the water, crossed to the other side of the creek and disappeared out of my sight upstream. I have learned from another source that in the water, mocs can be distinguished by the way their bodies float high on the water’s surface. I would be interested if anyone could support that observation.

From my first post here, I tried to convey that I had nothing but respect for the local reptiles, and intend no harm. I have learned from ranchers and other residents of my locale that the most common attitude is one of zero tolerance towards snakes enforced by a .22 caliber loaded with rat shot, or a garden hoe. I have no intention of employing either method. I have gotten “used to” the idea that I will be sharing the creek with the mocs, and will do my best to not surprise them and give them plenty of space.

I have also learned that mocs are not fond of living in areas of a lot of human activity. Perhaps in time they will move to an area of the creek less visited. In the meantime, I will assume that my paddle will be a sufficient tool to “redirect” a too-close encounter. In the event that strategy fails, I have stowed an “Extractor” kit in my kayak which is a simple syringe type suction pump to treat a bite. I hope to never use it, but as I stated in my original post, I feel better being prepared.
michtx is offline  
Old 05-07-05, 11:56 PM   #28
SCReptiles
Member
 
SCReptiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Age: 52
Posts: 1,562
I was hoping you were still monitoring this forum. I, for one, am very happy with your decisions.

Many “authorities” are now dismissing the sawyer extractor, but I have used it with what I consider to be success. I have yet to need antivenin. I use the extractor and a compression wrap. There is debate over how much venom is actually removed, but everyone is in agreement that the suction arrests venom at the bite area. This can be good and bad. Remember cottonmouth venom is primarily hemotoxic, meaning local cell destruction. My position is use the extractor if the bite is in an area that can tolerate the added necrosis, such as the calf, thigh, forearm, etc. If the bite is below the wriest or ankle the added cell destruction could lead to the amputation of a finger, toe, hand or foot.

Quote:
Galad, I thank you for your support, but it is difficult at best to determine who is a genuine authority, and who is the 14 year old, self appointed “know it all”.
Be hold my evidence. He is affectionately known as Gunther. I caught him several years ago. This was the day he came from the wild, 49” and 4 pounds that day. He is about 52” now and has sired two litters of huge babies.

__________________
www.SCReptiles.com 2.2 Crotalus adamanteus. 2.2 Crotalus h. atricaudatus. 2.2 Crotalus h. horridus. 1.1 Agkistrodon p. piscivorus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. contortrix. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. mokasen. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. laticinctus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. pictigaster. Agkistrodon c. phaeogaster. 1.2 Sistrurus miliarius barbouri. 1.1 Micrurus fulvius. 0.0.1 Micrurus fulvius tenere
SCReptiles is offline  
Old 05-09-05, 11:01 AM   #29
galad
Member
 
Join Date: Sep-2004
Location: wpg
Age: 41
Posts: 497
Send a message via MSN to galad
SCReptiles sorry if I have offended you, it was not my intention.
Mystatment about reading a book on snakes and expecting to know everything about them was directed to the person who told her to pick up a book and read about them. The book she had already read I might add.
What I meant by my post was that people were going way off topic. And it seems that if your a newbie on this site, no one will take your word for anything. Which can be understandable to some extent.
She was looking for away to deter the snakes.
And no one seemed to want to come up with that answer, being very ingnorant in the fact that they think this snake will not bite unless threatened.
This could be true, but what if she happens to threaten a snake she does not know is there, and it lunges after her?

Sure they're are probably many park rangers who don't take much pride in their job. But my impression of them being avid backpackers and kayakers . Makes me beleave that her husband loves his job and probably the type of person that will try to find out all he can on the environment and the animals in it.

Galad, continue LMFAO. Seems to me you already laughed your f’n brain out. Your comments are out of place and offensive. You struck me as the type that lacks the metal to deal with this type of animal, so you like to sit ideally by with a ribbon snake in your lap and cast dispersions on the people that are on the forefront.

SCReptiles thats a pretty hillariouse statement.
Also a very rude one. I don't recall making any personall attacks on you.
Why do you fell the need to attack me? I know it might have made u upset but there are other ways to express yourself.

But in away you are right I don't have any experience owning snakes at all. Not even a ribbon snake. So could I handle a hot right now? Probably. Can I handle one with out getting bitten?
Probably not, nor have I claimed that I can.

I also know that you know one heck of alot more about snakes then I ever will. I'm sure we are not aloud to keep hots in the city anyways. Cant even have a red tailed boa
peace

ws
__________________
"Hey! A shooting star...wait...dang, must've just turned my head to fast."
- Boomhauer
galad is offline  
Old 05-09-05, 10:26 PM   #30
SCReptiles
Member
 
SCReptiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun-2003
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Age: 52
Posts: 1,562
Ok, since you were so apologetic, I feel bad for the personal attack. I said what I did in response your statements, such as LMFAO. A lot of these guys are just like me and have devoted a great portion of their life and wealth to venomous herpetology. Laughing your f’n A off when they try to share what they have learned is enough to upset me. Of course if you were only talking to someone who offered no useful information and told her to read a book, then we are probably in accord on them. It is my position, if you do not have useful information, do not try to answer a question. You’ll never catch me in the iguana forum spouting out info to anyone. Ha ha.

Sorry brother.
__________________
www.SCReptiles.com 2.2 Crotalus adamanteus. 2.2 Crotalus h. atricaudatus. 2.2 Crotalus h. horridus. 1.1 Agkistrodon p. piscivorus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. contortrix. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. mokasen. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. laticinctus. 1.1 Agkistrodon c. pictigaster. Agkistrodon c. phaeogaster. 1.2 Sistrurus miliarius barbouri. 1.1 Micrurus fulvius. 0.0.1 Micrurus fulvius tenere
SCReptiles is offline  
Login to remove ads
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-2023, Hobby Solutions.

right