Red eared sliders wild in T.O.

[Cake]

Well I'd think that because of the long life span a healthy RES can have, just letting them "die off" would take decades even if not one more was released.

This is very true, but I look at the negative side that Steve and Ryan have pointed out, on decaring open season on them. An incorrect identification, could lead to the killing of a native turtle. Euthenization is the best option, but once agian a false indentification could lead to an individual being displaced from its home range after its identified correctly, and then released.

I agree with you Marisa, your solution does make sense, however I am cautious about the possible negative consequences.

[Tim and Julie B]

I think the turtle would do fine in the wild if released. Turtles rely on instict for most of their behavior. It should hibernate fine next year. The only problem I am having is where is a good spot and is it safe from a health stand point. I would hate to introduce some disease. I am going to ask a conservation person I know that works with local reptiles to see what he has to say and to direct me to a Western Pond turtle site if need be.

[Holy Mackerel]

Originally posted by Tim and Julie B
I would hate to introduce some disease.

It is the population where the turtle is being introduced that I would be worried about.

I commend you on the effort you're putting into the turtle though! Good Job.

Steve

[CuttsCustoms]

you mind telling me were in highpark? if they are res a bunch of us should go remove them. I found the part on them breeding on a conservation/turtle site . all try and find it.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Tim,

I believe the western pond turtle is considered extirpated from Canada at this point. It is very likely that the individual turtle from the pet store was originally obtained from the US. I would suggest that releasing it is not a good idea, for a variety of reasons. I'm sure there is a local educational facility that would be able to put it to good use.

I started looking at red-eared sliders in Ontario in 1993 for a herpetology course project. Even then there was widespread evidence of successful overwintering in southern Ontario. Successful breeding had not been recorded, and I have still yet to hear of an official report of it, though I have heard reliable reports of nests and hatched eggs.

They do not occur naturally by Lake Michigan. The spot on the range map in the field guides is an introduced population (Muskegon county if I recall correctly).

In high park, the best place to see them is basking on logs at the north end of Grenadier Pond. With binoculars, you can easily identify them as sliders. You can also readily observe them at the ponds at the Don Valley brickworks. I've heard many reports of them at Riverdale Farm but haven't been there personally. And a few years ago, we saw 10 sliders while paddling around the Toronto Islands on a sunny afternoon in late April.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[CuttsCustoms]

Jeff you really put it into perspective. but how many turtles could actually have been realeased to reflect the numbers your saying. To me it means that every relativly heathly turtle released is surviving and that they can survive[probably no thrive] until there old. to bad we couldn't date them because I bet most could be found to be realsed during turtle phases, with the odd one being newer or older. I would like to get weights and see how healthy they are compared to others of there genus. are amatuers allowed to do there own studies? would it be classed as a documentry or something. Oh and finally can you stumach pump a turtle to see what they have eaten?

[Holy Mackerel]

CuttsCustoms,

Research on animals must be approved by an ethics committee (university or government). That committee will determine if the research warrents any potential harm that may come as a result of the study.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Actually, that is correct only if you are doing research at a university or with a government agency. Any individual can do their own private, self-funded research, as long as their activities do not violate any laws. In this case, you would have to make sure that your research does not cause cruelty to animals (as defined by the federal statute). Red-eared sliders are not regulated as native wildlife, so you would not need any authorization from the Ministry of Natural Resources. However, if you began doing anything with native turtles, you would.

So catch, weigh, measure, shell notch, etc. all of the sliders you find if you want, but please keep good notes and share your results. Who knows what you might find? Stomach pumping, on the other hand, would likely fall under animal cruelty unless performed by a veterinarian. Of course, you could euthanize them and do a stomach contents analysis...

I wouldn't say that all released turtles are surviving. I've successfully hibernated some outdoors in the past, but I've also had some die. This is hardly a scientific basis to judge anything on, so I hope to examine it further in the future. As for the health and weight of the feral turtles, I'd say they are doing very well here. Of course, that isn't surprising as turtles are not limited (or perhaps rarely so) by the amount of food in their habitat.

Cheers,

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Wu-Gwei]

I have seen RES around Montreal. I have successfully caught female RES in Ottawa. They can and do survive up here in Ottawa and Montreal easily. As for breeding, I do not think there are THAT many in specific area, so chances of mating and producing are still slim. However, people continue to dump RES, which live 30-40 years easily, there will be breeding down the road.

I agree that people should not be randomly catching "RES", cause like many suggested, people mis-ID all the time, even "herpers."

I don't think one or two RES in pond will have a huge effect, but when there are a several, that becaomes a threat to the native species. That is when a local herp club memebers should come in trap and catch to remove them. I don't know about legalities, but that is better than having people randomly removing turtles from our habitats, not certain if it is a algae-covered RES or a mucky painted.

Remove them if you are certain and if you can, but until they are proven to be a problem, better to leave them alone.

Cheers,
JJ

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by CuttsCustoms
I would like to get weights and see how healthy they are compared to others of there genus. are amatuers allowed to do there own studies? would it be classed as a documentry or something. Oh and finally can you stumach pump a turtle to see what they have eaten?

I should have mentioned that if you require any advice, feel free to contact me (or Jeff, as I'm sure he'd be willing to help) as there are various standards for mark-recapture methods and turtle measurements. There's also some background information for notching that we could help you with (i.e. scute number assignment, etc.). It would help for you to have this information ahead of time so that you know you will be recording everything you need and performing everything as efficiently as possible.
Cheers,
Ryan

[CuttsCustoms]

I am very sorry for taking so long to reply. And I am still interested in pursuing this . If you Mr. Bolton could share your info, how you record and mark turtles and maybe a sample page of info I would be grateful. In the meantime I have to buy another memory stick for my camera strictly for it. Im still interested in anybody elses experiences with WC red ears in non native habitat. Can I use a barrel type turtle trap? I would assume they can't harder to catch then painteds, which I have caught in the water with small koi typr hand nets.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Using a turtle trap would be a bad idea, as you could easily catch painteds or other species with it. I believe that this would also be considered illegal. Hand or dip net would be your best bets.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[wetlander]

You can also look in the Humber Marshes (Humber River South of Bloor Street) and the Mouth of the Rouge River. I do lots of work in these areas and see quite a few of them.

[Removed_2815]

First, you need to draft up a turtle data sheet. This should include the following:
Notch #:_______________ (this is just a number that you assign arbitrarily - more on this later)
Your name:_______________
Processing date: _______________
First time capture?: _____ (Y/N)
Year last captured: _____
Year of first capture: _____
Capture location: _______________ (be as detailed as possible; GPS is ideal)
Turtle sex: _____ (M/F)
Gravid?: _____ (Y/N) (it's relatively simple to check if a female RES is gravid, best to have someone show you)
Date captured: _____ (if different from processing date)
Method of capture: _______________
Behaviour during capture: _______________ (basking, nesting, etc.)

Turtle measurements in cm (to the nearest mm): (get some good digital callipers)
Midline plastron length: _____
Maximum plastron length: _____
Left front claw length: _____
Right front claw length: _____
Midline carapace length: _____
Maximum carapace length: _____
Carapace width: _____
Maximum turtle height: _____
Mass (g): _____ (get a good spring scale)
*you could also approximate age if you'd like. Scute lines/ridges are pretty accurate for younger turtles but adults are impossible to estimate age with any degree of certainty.

Notch locations:
This involves assigning a number system to the marginal scutes. You will then be able to select a combination of scutes that will add up to the arbitrarily selected notch number that you have assigned for that turtle. For example:

This photo is from the data sheet for the Midland Painted turtle in my above post. This turtle's notch number is 1545 (the 846 on her back is her tag ID, as we also tag these turtles). You can see that I have put a ">" next to the marginal scute that I will notch in order to make the number 1545 (1000 + 400 + 100 + 40 + 4 + 1). You might want to have a number scheme planned out ahead of time in order to minimize the amount of scutes you have to notch. After you've selected what scutes you must notch then you simply restrain the turtle (you can do this by wrapping the turtle in a cloth leaving only the desired scute exposed, make sure that the cloth restrains the turtle's head and extremities) and use a metal file to notch the scutes. Don't cut too far into the scute (about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way in) because you don't want to hit any blood vessels. You can see how the scutes have been notched on the turtle in my above post.

Deformities and wounds:
You should also include a schematic drawing of the turtle's plastron on your data sheet because this step requires that you draw any deformities (such as extra scutes, etc.) and wounds, or any other identifying characteristics (as notches are not permanent). You should also include a section where you can describe the deformities and wounds - make sure you have a complete understanding of scute morphology/location (nuchal, marginals, costals, vertebrals, gular, humeral, pectoral, abdominal, femoral, anal, bridge, etc.). You can find this on the internet.

You can also keep track of anything else you find to be pertinent; parasitism (leeches), time of day, weather conditions, etc.

I think that's about it for the basics.

Cheers,
Ryan

[wetlander]

LoL Ryan. I love that smile, but this ones more evil