The Truth About Pine

[hhw]

You know, you always hear about how cedar and pine are toxic. The reason given is that they contain phenols. Well, that is fine and dandy but why is it that any "scientific studies" cited as evidence tend to be obscure references and never any hard published data?

Well, I don't know if this article is new to any of you... I read the discussion about pine in the corn snake forum and it wasn't mentioned there:
http://www.geocities.com/heavyhitter1.geo/Pine.html

I also found another interesting article that would attribute the real reason animals kept on pine may have more problems than animals kept on other substrates:
http://www.phoenixzoo.org/zoo/animal...november23.asp
Because pine masks the scent of ammonia (urine), ammonia levels can reach much higher levels than on other substrates.

Anyway, it looks as if how often you change your substrate is more important than what you use for it.

[Linds]

Interestings articles. I've also read that first one before, though not the second. I still stand by my prior thoughts of pine being somewhat harmful, despite what has been posted. While some tests either way would be nice, I can take from simple observation that it isn't that great either. I've seen horses with sensitive systems unable to be kept on pine, as well as I've seen definite improvements in a rats overall health when kept off it. Same frequency of cleaning, same diet, same temperatures, etc. In fact, I clean even less when using substrates such as Carefresh, and have only seen improvements. Overall though, it isn't a severe problem, and I see no problems with keeping feeders on it, since they are not living that long anyways. I don't use it for my pets though, with the occassion of running out of their own substrate

[sapphire_moon]

rats have *very* senisitive respirtory systems. If they are exposed to anything with strong smells (like pine, cedar, amonia, bleach) they can get sick (and on a side note before I forget flouride can cause cancer in them).

However, breeder/feeder rats have extrememly short life spans anyways, so just give them the best life you can while trying to do it cheaply.