Talk About... Quarantine Practices! - Page 4

rwg · 11-11-04, 03:03 PM

Mites are the least of your worries. Check out the list of nasty things that can be transmitted through fecal matter. Enatamoeba, coccidia, and cryptosporidium come to mind immediately. These can all cause death. Crypto has no treatment. I know it's rare, but if you bring it into your collection, you can kiss them all goodbye if you're not exercising reasonable quarantine practices. Washing your hands, and keeping cage furniture absolutely separate go a long way towards protecting your collection from possible transmission. I agree...if your collection is all long-term residents, I dont see a need to be as rigorous.

Hand washing is the number one way to minimize transmission of common diseases between humans. Why some people think it has no value in herpetoculture is beyond me.

Roy

BOAS_N_PYTHONS · 11-11-04, 03:20 PM

TIM:

I agree with you on your latest reply.

I too do some drastic methods on shipments coming my way.

Once I at the airport I am all prepared with camera, bottle of NIX, a few Rubbermaid tubs once I already know the sizes of the animals, and surgical gloves. I know it sounds extreme but I try what I can to reduce most of the nasties that can occur coming home.

Once I have the package I usually tear it open in the warehouse. I usually have a friend or my fiancée there with me to help with the camera and tubs. The moment I can see the boids in the package a series of photos are taken to prove shipping methods and that the boids are alive. Then we try and reduce as much contact on the boids and there packaging. Because 50% of the time this packaging was used in a different order between the sender and another sale before I feel 3 sources of contact can be something to worry about. Remember most people say you can trust the source but do you know for sure that the packaging can be trusted. Lots of people and breeders use past packaging to save a buck on that process. I have seen a friend of mine here receive a package from BC that originally came from Florida and Brazil, so it indeed happens (how do I know these guys did not even try to remove all the past shipping labels only cover them up, lol).

Ok back to the method I was discussing. Once I see the boids are alive we start the photos and removing them. I get each out and spray with NIX and the new Rubbermaid tub also in NIX with paper towel as well. Each boid gets a clean medicated tub and all are placed in a larger transport tub also medicated. This large tub is placed in my SUV and we drive home. But before that point all that shipping material is sprayed and then tossed in the garbage at the warehouse. I usually get a few funny looks from some of the airport staff but a few managers have said “if you go to this length, bet you have the best animals around and you must be a scientist”, I simply say each one of these animals is an investment that on its own is important but as a whole its critically important based on so many factors that affect me in the long run. Once they arrive at the facility they then go into the 6 – 12 month quarantine.

Is it extensive – YES.
Is it necessary – YES.
Is it over kill – YES.

But in the end I cannot lose a boid or collection, thinking any less.

Anyone that has bought anything from me has always received brand new shipping materials from box, Styrofoam, newspaper, tubs, and heat packs. It costs a bit of money on this system even on a $100.00 boa, but I hope the customers see the length we go to, to bring peace of mind on quality.

This is just our method; it’s not the law or the Holy Grail for everyone.

As stated before you can trust all you want from who you buy your animals from, be it on pick up, shipment, or a close friend. You can trust the facility based on reputation, past experiences or the deal you got. But in the end if they specialize in 2 species or 2 locals or more you know your getting something more than you thought you were getting.

This post has got very hot lately more off topic then on, and as Tim stated it was to see and improve methods not to do personal attacks. There are alot of people reading this post and some may even have good information but in the end a if they see a fire will they help put it out or walk away.

So I just ask what was said and done be the end of it and lets all contribute more methods of quarantine to this post. I hope my 1st pail of water helps cool this hot subject, but let’s hope we can discuss it more on what is was started for.

Cya…

Tony

Tim_Cranwill · 11-11-04, 03:32 PM

Thanks Tony, great post!

BOAS_N_PYTHONS · 11-11-04, 04:01 PM

EVERYONE:

The subject of hand washing is being brought up a bit as well in this topic. I did state a rather extensive protocol we do here at my facility. Being each handling means we clean up ourselves as well. Some may think way to drastic, but we feel; its part of owning a large collection. Our established lines even get this treatment as well. My facility is not a public one and has very few people that have contact with it. Literally there are only 4 people who have held my animals once they arrive from a purchase or born here. What happened from purchases I can not control but once here and sold by us we can try.

Even then here at my facility it is only me that handles the collection from inspection, removal from cages, photo sessions, feedings, and regular fun handling. My 2 helpers (cousins) and my fiancée are more for the other duties around handling like cleaning the cages and adding fresh water. My whole crew understands the importance to my methods and why I must be the only handler of the animals. Even when we have close friends and family over, they know they can see but never touch. Is it over-kill, maybe but if something goes medically wrong with my collection I can only blame myself, being the only handler.

Now let’s discuss cage cleaning. This duty is performed by all 4 of us where all substrate is garbage after soiled, water bowl is removed and placed with a new one that was cleaned days before and has fresh water in it. The cage itself is washed with soapy water from top to bottom and dried out. We usually do 5 cages at once with this method and it can be a 6 hour detail on a day planned for cleaning our collection. After we spray with Virosan and wipe after to complete a full cleaning. Every 2 weeks with this weekly process I give my boids a luke warm water bath for 20 minutes each. We set up 10 tubs at a time and everything from Ball Pythons to High end Boa Morphs gets a bath. Each bath is clean water for each animal, yes Rubbermaid loves me I know I bought enough to keep them in business for 10 years, lol. Why do we bath our animals, well they do live in there toilets and even dry urine still leaves a scent on them. Also it helps with sheds. And my collection just glows in iridescence being so clean.

These big days of work are always planned on making most of the collection defecate on the same day with regular misting and knowing the schedule from feeding habits. The system works for us 85% of the time, minus Emeralds Tree Boas and Blood Pythons. Getting them all to be on this program saves everyone a lot of work, We see it as 1 day of work in cleaning and feeding and rest of week with some small check ups, instead of a weekly job only doing 10 – 20% of the collection each day.

We run a tight ship here and I am always improving the standards and methods. My fiancée says I am extreme but her parrot collection has improved with my dictatorship, lol. I know most hobbyist may feel I am going over kill and others may want to clone my ideas to there’s. All in all as stated in above post it’s just our method; it’s not the law or the Holy Grail for everyone.

Cya…

Tony

damzookeeper · 11-11-04, 04:03 PM

I'm very curious though. Can the nix solution be used on all reptiles or just snakes?

I too have to admit when I clean my leo cages I only wash my hands about every 10 cages or if I get fecal on them because I clean about 50 cages at a time. And When giving them their thorough cleaning for the month (washing them in the basement sink) I think I could be more careful thinking about it now. I wash them in the same water about 5 containers before changing the water. I use soap and a bit of bleach in the water. I'm now thinking that I should just run the water into each container and wash them all separately with new water each time.

I've also housed snakes in old leo bins. Ones that have been washed out of course, but seeing as some people use one bin for an animal and toss them it makes me think!

another thing is when I'm cleaning cages I use a bin to place the leos in while I'm cleaning their cage and I use that same bin for all the leos while I clean, one or two (if housed by clutches) at a time in the bin,but about a hundred or more depending on time of year go into the bin one after another.I do the same with my snakes. So I guess I'm kind of defeating the purpose there aren't I. What should I do instead, use deli cups, changing cups for each animals and wash the delis afterwards?

Your right, this is an excellent post and it has opened my eyes about my own methods. I thought I was pretty clean as I quarenteen in another room and I keep my cages as clean as I can. But I still have room for improvement, that is for sure!

edit: to correct some spelling errors.

Linds · 11-11-04, 06:04 PM

Brian,
Thanks you

Tim,
Going after someone's hobbies or interests isn't even relative to questioning a potential client or competitors methods of preventing potential problems, so I'm unsure as to why you would even try to make such a comparison. My comments were intended purely as feedback for everyone who practices zero quarantine, from a potential client's perspective, and instead you chose to view them as some sort of personal attack

Keep in mind I never made any remarks or accusations at you or anyone else, despite being jumped all over, but I know you cannot say them same. Sorry such an informative thread had to be filled with this sort of stuff

That asides... Tim and Tony,
I would be worried about vapourizing Nix around any living creatures, safe as it is made out to be, Nix is still poison nonetheless, and breathing poison isn't good

Do you guys remove your animals prior to using Nix in the humidifier? What are you opinions on the safety of this? I use BK for all mine, and although it does carry some risks, I always open all the windows and remove the animals from the enclosures that are being treated in order to minimize the effects (and some animals that I feel would be exceedingly sensitive, such as lizards or apmhibians), until I feel everything has been adequately aired out.

Deb,
Nix should only be used on snakes. Apparently it can be fatal to some lizards.

Tim_Cranwill · 11-11-04, 06:26 PM

Linds I was trying to put an end to this nonsense. Obviously you're not capable of letting it go. You must always be "right". Why even bother "debunking" my analogy? What's the friggin' point?!?! I was referring to feeling INSULTED when someone makes negative remarks about a group of people you belong to. Can't you see that? Yeesh! Why do I bother with you... You're right, ok? There. Now let it go...

You know, the thread was actually getting back on track until YOU got involved again...

And to get back on track and answer your question in a civil way, no I don't see it as being much of a risk or being much different than spraying the animals or room. And it's to treat the room more than the animals. I only do it for ½ an hour or so every couple months. I’m not sure if it even makes a difference but I would be VERY surprised if it had any ill effect on the animals.

Jeff_Favelle · 11-11-04, 06:34 PM

I wouldn't spray-bomb the room with NIX. It won't do any good. NIX is only really effective when in comes into contact with the mites and then dries. It is NOT a systemic poison like Vapona. Its DOES NOT work by vapours, so bombing the room with it will only make the room smell nice (like FeBreeze, LOL!), but it won't kill mites. The reason that NIX is so darn effective is that it is used as a LOCAL agent. Ignoring its engineered use and trying to make it a general agent will only result in negative effects.

But to each their own.

Tim_Cranwill · 11-11-04, 06:36 PM

I wasn't sure if it made a difference or not but when Tony told me about it, it sounded like a neat idea. Do you think it's a just waste or do you think it's a <u>bad</u> idea?

Linds · 11-11-04, 06:43 PM

I'd be more than happy to let 'it go', whatever 'it' is. It's baffled me that you allowed my comments (which MANY other people have shared similar comments, though nobody jumped on them) to escalate in to such a drama-fest. It's not that I'm not capable of letting things go, but I'm also a firm believer in defending myself. I'm not the one continuously pointing fingers in faces, sending accusatory PM's, attempting to dimish anyone, or being downright rude. I have been the one to remain civil in this, despite your jumping all over me. It's obvious you had problems with me to start, or you would've had the same issues with half the other people that had the same things to say. Despite everything you've thrown at me, I have refrained from becoming personal with you, despite all your personal remarks, assumptions, and accusations about myself. I'm removing myself from this thread, as I cannot remain so civil and abiding any longer, and will most certainly step outside the expectations of a mod.

Good day.

BOAS_N_PYTHONS · 11-11-04, 07:02 PM

EVERYONE:

Geeez I guess my 1st pail of water on this thread did not work....lol.

Time to call in the fire department and drown the thread....lol.

As for the humidifier subject its not a treatment I put into play 24/7. I stated its use not its parameters. Being I can get rather lenghty on my posts if I was to give out all my experience and thoughts on this and other subjects I best call a publishing company and write my own book already. I stated using a humidifier but my mistake was I forgot to mention parameters and time schedules and so on.

In simple terms I use it as a maintenance tool say every 2 months, once for 8 hours, the rooms are large and breathe well. Because mites are such a unique pest controlling them to the animal infected and the cage itself is just useless. The do find ways to escape. So what I do is spray everything and I mean everything. Then with a humidier in the middle of a room say 24 x 30 feet covering controlling 70 mid size cages I let it run for 8 hours to catch any pests. My rooms are vinyl and clear looking this method actually has results. They are always clean (I' m a neat freak) and when you do a washing of the floor and see mites where they should not be then you realize the distance they travelled trying to escape. I have no fear of mites because my system stops them before they enter my facility now no matter at what stage.

If you have carpet and your room is not controlled with a sytem to stop mites from exploring I recommend using a new clean vacuum bag on your machine, drop in a moth ball and do a thorough cleaning of the room and the house. Then spray the that room in NIX and the animals and cages and all surrounds rooms at the the edges and corners of walls. Being the vacuum did most of the work, do this for a few days in a week and you got the war in your favour.

Again both NIX and moth balls are toxic so work fast and have area aired out as well, this is my method and my animals if they could talk would say "thank you".....lol.

Now watch me get bashed on this system.........:monkey:

If your a mite, let me tell you now...you lost the war!

Cya...

Tony

wetlander · 11-11-04, 07:18 PM

Great Thread. THis is one of the better and more educational threads I have read on ssnakess for awhile. Keep up the great posts!

For reptiles other than snakes there is a home made remedy that I have used. I used this on a wild caught water snake (this was over 20 years ago) that was just crawling in mites. After 3 treatments ... no more mites.

Mix 50% castor oil and 50 % rubbing alcohol. Coat the reptile in this mixture (avoid mouth and eyes, although a Q-tip can be used to get close). Leave the mix on for 15 minutes then bath the reptile. Make sure the cage is thoroughly cleaned before reintroducing. Repeat every 2 days until all mites are gone. The oil smothers the mites and the alcohol helps to kill them and improve viscosity.

This does take a little longer but it is less poisonous

Doug

ydnic · 11-11-04, 07:19 PM

ridiculous...

it seems to me that 1 out of every 5 important informative posts that turn up on this forum turn in to an argument....

my mother always said 'if you don`t have some thing nice to say..blah, blah, blah'

Drama aside this was a GREAT thread - being a 'nub' - lol I found a lot of important information that I will definatley need to be successful - thats what I love so much about this hobbie - learning

I have never done much with isolation, segrigation, or quarentining
The only things that have been quarentines are rescue, or something from a pet store that I just had to have. I really figured that since everyone had their own rubber maid and were inspected for mites I was cool.

I guess I just took it for granted that purchasing from another breeder - that that breeder would treat their animals just like I would treat mine - and that a more experianced breeder would obviously have a better set up and understanding of care than I would.

By the Way...I just purchased some kings from Tim last week i DIDN`T quarentine them because I thought I was buying from a responisble breeder which I still believe. (although I now know there is a lot more to take into considderation)

Tim thanx a lot they are doing great - fiesty little piggies!

Anyways thanx everyone!

Tim_Cranwill · 11-11-04, 07:25 PM

LOL... yes, this HAS gotten ridiculous. I apologize for my behavior but not my convictions.

No arguments for me for a month! lol

I'm glad the kings are doing fine (nice and clean

). I even gave you the LESS feisty ones! LOL

damzookeeper · 11-11-04, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Linds

Deb,
Nix should only be used on snakes. Apparently it can be fatal to some lizards.

Thanks. So, if it is alright on snakes, it must be alright on skinks and other scaled animals? But not lizards like dragons and geckos and such. So does anyone know of a way of preventing mites on them? Like when you buy new before bringing it into the house or when coming back from shows and such? It doesn't really make sence to me to quenteen them in a different room for a couple months when coming back from shows cuz then it would be time for another show. lol.

I do however, wash my hands serveral times during the day at the shows, and between handling of any animals. Would this be enough provention from shows for my animals? I also bring new animals up front with me on the way home and the rest of my crew are in the back part of the car.