Vet killed my baby

[HeatherRose]

I'm sorry for your loss...I lost a cham recently and I know how just plain sucky it is. I don't see anything in Jay's post that accuses you in any way shape or form of killing your chameleon, however, and try as we might, sometimes things just work out badly.

I don't think you can blame the vet though. I'm sure any veterinarian would try their best to save any animal. No one's perfect, though, and sometimes nothing can be done. Was it a herp vet or no? I've brought a chameleon to a non-herp vet (it was 3 am and an emergency) and they did basically the same thing, hydrating him with injections and keeping him warm and administering oxygen. The only thing that bothered me was the lack of compassion from her when it died on me...but she still tried with all she knew about chameleons from lectures in school and books she had laying around.

The subcutaneous fluid injection and everything else that was performed seems quite standard and I think that any vet you'd have taken her to would have followed the same procedure. (Correct me if I'm wrong please.)

I'd recommend a necropsy if it's not too late...in my experience you'll feel a lot better once you know what happened for SURE.

Good luck,
Heather Rose

[meow_mix450]

thats not a bad idea at all a necropsy

Meow

[HeatherRose]

Yup...it should run about $50-$60 and is well worth it in my opinion....you'll feel a lot better.

Heather

[CarlC]

I would follow Brandy's advice. Get the necropsy done. This will lead you to the cause of death. Once the results are in you will know who to blame. Yourself or the Vet.

Carl

[Artemis]

Told ya everyone would defend the vet.... hope you are getting through your grieving process ok. I dont care what everyone says either. There are lots of good vets out there, no denying that, but there are a lot of vets that aint so hot, either, and I dont know why everyone is always so quick to defend them. Truth is, vet SHOULD have told you if he didnt think your cham would make it, and it raises my eyebrows that he actually said it to you AFTER the fact.

I hope you are feeling better!

Artemis

[panther_dude]

thank you very much artemis at least someone has the same opinion I do. He did kill her by telling me she was going to be ok.

[Brent Strande]

"You're not going to die in a car accident today"

Now, is it my fault if you get killed in a car accident today since I said that it wouldn't happen and it did?

I understand your frustration, but if you have no faith in this vet, why did you bring the cham there in the first place? You already complained about this vet once, why didn't you find a better one?

Thats like taking your car to a mechanic that you know won't fix it, and then complaining if your car is not working properly after bringing it in.

[meow_mix450]

A very very good point made by Brent. Im saying that its not complelety the vets fault. Chameleons can hide there sickness really well, its usually to late at the last minute. There wasnt much the vet could have done. The vet saying she is going to be ok did not kill her, unless casted a spell on it and hope it would die. By him not tell you she is going to die wouldnt have help much anyways. It will hurt if you have lost something that is close. But you have to get over it and move on. Dont always blame someone else, and if you really wanted to know why she died then do an necropsy

Meow

[Brock]

Oh man,

Always so quick to blame other people. Sorry for your loss, guy, but the thing is that you have to accept the blame yourself in order to improve your husbandry techniques. I've had two out of four chameleons die on me and I accepted responsibility for every single one, even though my one baby jacksonii had an eye infection when I got him and he died 9 days later, I still blamed myself to force myself to be a better keeper.

In my experience, the female usually NEVER lays when you think she will, it's always a week or even three weeks after you think something's wrong. I don't know about other people, but my female stops eating for about a week or two before she lays, she usually accepts food on the day she's going to lay though. Another thing is, how many lay boxes did you have? Ideally you should have at least two, three including her plant container. My female has laid in sand, peat moss, her ficus plant, and her scheffleara plant. I would NEVER take her to a vet if I thought something was wrong near egg laying, because I know that if you F*** with nature's reproductive process, you're going to have problems. I was just watching a show on TV about turtles, they won't lay their eggs if they see any movement on the beach, it's only after they start to lay that they don't care. They won't dig or even search for a laying site until they know it's safe. And getting injections and being so hassled by you makes it easy to blame you for her death. And if everyone's saying that the vet did standard procedures, there's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is that you had no confidence in the vet to begin with and you still took her there. Sorry to say it, but it's just as bad as your chameleon having confidence in you.

Truth hurts,
-Brock

[JonD]

Good post Brock.

Everyone is quick to blame, no one accepts it.

[Brock]

AHAHAHAHAAHA that's such an awesome avatar.

[dank7oo]

Excellent post Brock ... have redeamed yourself from *cough* rough posts in the past (if you dont remember I would be more than glad to refresh your memory through PM - let me know).

Jason

[HeatherRose]

I agree, excellent post Brock

Sometimes, chameleons just get sick, while othertimes, husbandry mistakes are made...no one's perfect. Not even the veterinarian you brough her to. But, out of ANYONE who could be responsible, least of all would be your vet.

Don't go looking for random people to blame for your mistakes. Did you get a necropsy done? I got one done once even though I was terrified that it would be my own fault and husbandry mistakes that resulted in the chameleons' death...it's worth knowing where the blame really does lie anyway, instead of being too scared to accept that it might be you. While my chameleons' death was natural, I still accept the blame for not being able to catch it earlier even though I know not much could have been done.

As herpers we are constantly learning and evolving, but the greatest thing we can do is learn from our own mistakes, accept them, and move on...

Heather Rose

[Artemis]

Its not so much about blame really. Death happens. Thats part of keeping an animal. But when you take an animal to a professional and are paying for medical opinion and care, you deserve the truth. I would hope 10 years of vet school and the amount of money we fork over to the vet could provide us with that much. This doesnt just happen with chameleons, either. It happens with all animals. I cant believe you guys dont find it a little messed up that the vet tells someone "it will be fine" and sends them home having faith in their professional opinion, then when the animal dies the vet says "oh I didnt think he would make it." Now how screwed up is that. When I went to the vet and was told the same thing about my kittens, and found them all dead 12 hours later, I managed to leave the vets office having spent a small fortune in special foods, nutritional supplements and more that are now sitting in a cabinet in my house. I think that there are a lot of animal doctors with no scruples. Same way with people doctors, though I doubt people would argue that point as much as the vet one seems to get argued. There are a lot of great, honest vets out their who try their hardest, and I know that, but is it so hard to believe that in this big world there are some really LOUSY ones, too! And as for having faith in your vet, well, until you go to a vet a lot and are familiar with their practices, what choice do you have but to trust what they say. After all, thats what you are paying for.

I think its terribly naive to believe that all vets are fabulous, and that they did everything they could. I think thats a downright delusional perspective in fact. Reality is, there are some vets who could care less about your animals and are more concerned with own pocketbooks. When fellow animal lovers run across these vets, and express their feelings about their bad experiences with a BAD vet, then it seems pretty moronic to sit there and say back to them "oh im sure the vet did everything they could." what makes you so sure. Its not about placing BLAME. Animals get sick and die, as do people.

But if I take my mother to the hosptial for something, and they give her some IV fluids, and send me home with her telling me she is fine, and she is dead in the morning, do you think im gonna sit there and say "oh they did everything they could?" Simple fact is, they will do everything they can as long as you are willing and able to pay for it. Vets are no different. The only difference is, if it was my mother instead of my pet, you had better believe Id file a big fat malpractice suit.

The fact that the vet actually told this kid after the fact that he didnt think the cham would make it, when he sent him home telling him it would be fine, is really, really screwed up, and I think its perfectly understandable, rational and legitimate to be angry at the vet for what was a clearly inaccurate prognosis. They arent doing us some big favor by doing that. We pay mucho dinero for it. If it was like the free vet clinic or some crap, then yeah, what can you say. But when you are paying for a service, and that service is clearly not rendered, then ofcourse you can, and should, be angry.

And punkuponastar, im SURPRISED at the harshness of YOUR comments especially. How can you say its his fault and not the vets. Thats so screwed up. Obviously we are not all vets and that is why we TAKE our animals there, when we know they need help and we dont know what we can or should do. Thats exactly what was done here, and the VET let this person down. If the vet thought this animal was a goner, which he conveniently admitted after the fact, then he should have said so outright when the animal was in his office and not six feet under.

These arent "random people we are blaming for our mistakes" as you so coldy put it. These are professionals we pay to let us know what is going on, and when that professional tells you its fine and sends you home, then you respect that opinion!

As for the necropsy issue. A lot of vets DONT do them. None of the ones around here do. When I lost all my kittens from the pregnant feral I took in, the vet told me if I wanted a necropsy done I would have to contact the regional college of vetrinary medicine around here. I did so, and they told me to get accurate results I should have one done on a minimum of 3 of the kittens, to the tune of 80 bucks USD a piece. I had already spent my money having the vet tell me everything was gonna be fine, so 240 dollars just to get the answers I was seeking from the vet in the first place was somewhat out of the question.

Im honestly surprised at you guys, and I Hope karma wont bite you in the butt when one of your beloved animals ends up in the hands of a bad vet. You will be biting your tongues then.


Still fuming here. Its not about blaming anyone. Its about getting what you pay for, and getting the truth.

And panther, it isnt entirely fair to say the vet killed the cham. The illness or injury killed the cham. The vet just didnt really step up to the plate in terms of telling you the truth, and letting you know what options you had. Personally if my vet knew my animal was dying, I would want to know and have the option of putting it down rather than letting it suffer further. You were denied the truth, which you paid for. And while the death of your animal still might not have been preventable, you would have had what you paid for, which was an honest, and accurate-as-possible prognosis. There is a big difference between "its gonna be fine" and DEAD, and I feel your pain and anger completely on that point!

Brent- you get points for a fun analogy, but its not entirely the same thing now is it. Even you can admit that.

And meow, I love you. You rock. Even with a differing opinion you manage to be graceful and supportive. Everyone oughta take a lesson from you, you dont have to be a nasty cold jerk to disagree.

And im ASHAMED of the rest of you. Death and the grieving process for something you love always involves stages. Blame happens to be one of them. So even if you think dude had the best vet ever, and it isnt fair to "blame" the vet or whatever, you could be a little less harsh in explaining that point of view. Jeez.

Like I said, Karma sucks, and I sincerely hope none of you end up with a bad vet one of these days. They ARE out there, whether it is feasible in your idealistic notions of vetrinary medicine, or not.

Hissssssssss

Artemis

[Enter]

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNGG GGGGGGGGGGGG enough post for u?

sorray for ur loss, we can rebuild him, make him stronger, faster, smarter but i dont really want to spend alot of money