Action being taken with pit bulls

[Crystal]

Go back to the third page in this thread and read Kimos post...in that post the history of this breed was acurately described DEAD ON! the only reason why i mention this is because some of you keep saying that pitties were bred for agression. If you could prove this to me so i can toss out all my printed literature, liniage of my pittbull, and books on the history and making of this breed and call all the reputable breeders i have ever talked to about this breed, liars! i would greatly appreciate it.


Crystal

[spidergecko]

Originally posted by lisa marie
If banning male humans from walking the streets saves ONE child from being abducted/raped/murdered....is it NOT worth it?

You can't take away human rights. In our society, animals still have NO rights so you're comparing apples to oranges.

Matt's story interests me. I will give a comparision using my cat as an example. In Toronto there is a by-law stating that cats should be on leads (no free-roaming cats). We keep our cat on a lead but every so often, the collar or harness is loose and the cat "slips out". I admit, cats are much better at slipping out of "bondage" than dogs but occasionally, even the best dog owner (because I am the best ) will make a mistake and when that dogs gets free to disembowel some unsuspecting kid or pet, the parents/owner of said victim don't care one bit that you've been a good owner up until then. Even nice dogs kill other animals. Fortunately, a loose cat is more of a threat to local small wildlife than children (although this doesn't excuse free roaming cats).

Pit bulls may be the nicest, most gentle of dogs (if that's what you say) but many of the pit bulls on the street are not pure bred. They are mixed wilth all sorts of other breeds. Who knows how the temperament changes with each additional breed mixed in? Maybe you are mixing the human-killing instinct of the chiuaua with the power of a pit bull. "Oh but pit bulls are calm and don't kill people". Well killer chiuauas want to but can't because they are too small. Well now they can.

A ban on pit bulls won't work for this reason as well. Someone will have to determine how much pit bull the dog really is. With backyard breeders no one really knows. A subjective ban might, however. E.g.: Only licenced people can keep a dog over this particular size. If it costs you $100 a year to keep your dog licence this would weed out "kiddie" dog owners. Maybe that fee can be paid at the vet with every annual. Would this keep some people from taking their dog to the vet? Maybe, but a dog is hard to hide and sooner or later someone will report that you own a large dog and haven't registered it.

[beagle]

Well I own three pitbulls and a bull terrier and all of them are properlly socialized with animals and people. Alot of the posts people are putting up about them being bred for aggression and fighting and that they are mental could not be further from the truth. I suggest that you people go out and eduacate yourself properlly and learn about the breed. They are not naturally aggresive, it has to be brought out in them one way or another like any other canine. They can be animal aggresive if not properlly socialized but that goes for any canine too. Mine are three, eight and nine years old and we just bought a cat and had no problem getting them acustomed to it and they now sleep on the same couch some times. Also alot of the rep from these dogs come from no other then the media who just love to get people going for there own gain. Alot of dog attacks that happen are not even pit bulls but rather a misidentification or the media just loves to call any dog attack a pitbull attack, they don't seem to post any other dog attacks that happen everyday from some of the most common kept breeds like labs or german shepards. I can go to the park with my dogs and have people all over them playing and scratching them until they ask what kind of dog it is, if I tell them it is a pitbull they are a little cautious around them but if I tell them it's an American Staffy they just continue on like nothing was said even though they a practically the same dog, you can even get dual registered American Pitbulls and American Staffys because some kennel clubs don't recognize either or. The people pushing for these bans are the people who nothing about the breed and would probally believe there was a ghost that lived next door if it was in their local news paper. My son about a month ago was bit by a Goldon Retriever. No one ever thought that this dog would ever do anything like this but this dog had never been raised or properlly socialized around kids, great with adults and a good dog but not good with kids, it was put down a week later because of this. There is no way the local paper would publish anything about this, why....cause it happens every day with other breeds then pitbulls. I even work with a local breeder once in a while and have never even felt like I could be in danger and all of his dogs live with each other without misshaps, again they were properlly socialized. To many irresponsible dog owners get there hands on these dogs for the wrong reasons and hurt it for the responsible owners. And how do you pick out the responsible ones from the irresponsible ones? easy, the responsible owners are the ones who have their dogs on a leash and not loose in the neighberhood, the responsible ones might take there dogs for a walk at times when there is maybe less traffic or less people out and about, a responsible owner won't show off that they have a big so called kick*** pitbull, a responsible owner would follow all the city laws and try to make the best name possible for the breed. Maybe dog owner ship for certain dogs should be treated like a priveliage as it is for your driver's license, when you do something wrong or if u can't pass the test no dog for you, maybe it would at least weed out the responsible ones from the irresponsible ones(which there are to many of). Any owner that has a dog that bites whether it's a dam shitz su or pitbull has to be held accountable for their dogs actions, their the ones who trained it.... right!
Some one also said that they have a right to safety, well of course u do but we also have a right to keep what we want be a pitbull or snake, as long as it is kept properly. We aren't living in a third would country here. Not to mention people cause me more trouble then any dog would.
I have yet to read any literature that suggests that pitbulls are naturaly aggresive, but I have read lots about them exelling in obedience, dog shows and other events. so anybody who says they a more aggresive then other breeds....prove it without getting a clipping from your newspaper.
Like I said earlier I own pitbulls and they have been by far the best dogs with kids and adults that I have ever owned. Sure they bark at the door when someone knockes or comes in the yard, but what dog doesn't.
I will always own a pitbull weather it is legal or not! Thanks.

Todd

ps. Dogs that I have been bitten by are - Black Lab
- Shitz su
- Taco Bell dogs
- German Shepard
- a few cross breeds

[beagle]

Sincity you are misinformed about pitbulls.....there is no such thing as a locking jaw on a dog, pitbulls have strong jaws. I've seen little Terriers grab a rope or stick and not let it go until it wanted to. Also you were seeing all the cases of abused and mistreated dogs at the kennels. I have to kids 2 and 4 years of age and they play with my dogs all the time not to mention they are more tolerable of kids then other breeds I know of, I trust my dogs 100% with my kids. I don't trust anyone else's dog with my kids cause they don't know them just like I would not trust my dogs to be alone with other people's kids cause not all kids know how to behave around dogs, but that goes for all breeds. I don't let my dogs play unsupervised with the neighberhood kids which love to come over and see my dogs, that would be irresponsible. They are not a dog that just goes out of controll if they were raised properlly, if they do go out of control it is because of lack of training and socialization. Also they are more dangerous then a Lab if they bite just like a German Shepard is going to do more damage then a Springer Spaniel, it still does not make it ok if a smaller dog does bite, it should be treated as if it were a biter, they can still take out an eye or scar the kid for life. I have no use for any dog that is a biter and the owner and the dog should be dealt with accordingly be a Shtz su or pitbull.

Todd

[Cruciform]

In today's London Free Press:

Ontario bites back at vicious dogs


JOE BELANGER, Free Press City Hall Reporter; and CP 2004-09-01 03:09:13





Ontario's attorney general waded into the vicious dogs debate yesterday, calling for a provincewide solution. But pit bull owners were quick to defend the breed, blaming irresponsible owners and dismissing plans for a breed-specific ban.

"It's time to have a provincewide debate about whether or not there's any place in Ontario for pit bulls," Attorney General Michael Bryant said.

"One way or another, we're going to make some changes that ensure that we've got safe communities in the province of Ontario when it comes to these animals," Bryant said.

The move comes a day after London council's environment and transportation committee asked staff to draft a bylaw that could ban some dog breeds, such as pit bulls.

The issue has exploded in recent weeks, after an attack in London and another in Toronto last Saturday that sent both victims to hospital.

In a related incident, a three-year-old boy from Monkton, near Listowel, received 15 to 20 stitches after being bitten by a Chesapeake retriever at a foster home.

Bryant said the province wants to hear from experts, citizens and municipalities to decide whether pit bulls should be banned or restricted.

But pit bull owners defend their animals.

"The so-called vicious dogs I own, you might drown from them licking you to death," said Aaron Campbell, a 29-year-old Londoner.

Campbell has owned pit bulls and entered them in competitions for 10 years.

"I think it's unfair because all dogs bite," Campbell said of the anti-pit bull backlash.

"It's a lack of education and training. It's the owners who need to be punished by jail terms and big fines."

Campbell is trying to organize an information rally for dog owners -- without their pets -- at noon Saturday at Victoria Park.

Campbell said banning pit bulls won't solve the problem.

"In two years, you're just going to be banning more breeds," he said.

Pit bulls are not a specific breed, but include Staffordshire terriers and American pit bull terriers, once bred as fighting dogs. Some have been bred to be ultra-aggressive.

The Canada Safety Council echoed Campbell's remarks yesterday.

Council president Emile Therien urged more animal control measures, enforcement, education and stiffer penalties for "irresponsible" owners.

Therien said he doubts breed bans will work, since people who want vicious dogs will find others to fit the bill.

"It is high time irresponsible owners faced real consequences," Therien said.

"Criminal negligence charges must be laid against owners in cases of vicious dog attacks."

Several Canadian municipalities have banned vicious dog breeds, especially pit bulls and there is some evidence bans work.

In 1997, Kitchener passed a dangerous dog bylaw after 35 pit bull attacks in two years.

The bylaw packed a fine of as much as $5,000 and gave enforcers the power to order that dogs be muzzled or fenced.

The number of serious attacks has plummeted since , with only two pit bull incidents over the last three years.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if the breed that's doing the biting is banned, they're not going to be biting," said Jamie LaFlamme, assistant manager of the Kitchener-Waterloo Humane Society.

LaFlamme said concerns that former pit bull owners would seek other breeds proved unfounded.

"We still have our fair share of dog bites here, but I know the severity of the bites has gone down," LaFlamme said.

He agreed owners are a big part of the problem.

"I think it's a mixture of both," he said. "If you have a dog that's bred to fight, it has the strength and tenacity to keep going and, if the owner doesn't know what they're doing, you're going to have a problem."

Jay Stanford, London's manager of environmental programs, said any new vicious dog bylaw must be backed by enforcement.

[V.hb]

I dont agree with this lockjaw not being true. They have STRONG jaw pressure and wont let go. It took two paramedics to strangle one of the dogs to have it let go of the mans leg that was attacked.....

I also think its incredibly naive to continuosly compare pits to other dogs. A normal dog will give a minute bite (lab etc) and in very rare cases, a mauling. Pitbuls almost always maim who they attack given the oprotunity to (the owner doesnt stop the dog) I agree its very sad that the dog does have potential to be a great pet, hell I've seen documentaries with people that have Grizzly Bears and they're BIG sucks. Doesnt mean everyone should own one.

Another thing that bugs me, people that advocate pits dress them up in thick leather studded collars. Cmon now, you honestly think that helps anything? It's intimidating to most people (you may not think it is, but people do fear that sort of thing..)

[Samba]

My Sadie has a dainty leopard print color... LOL =)

[V.hb]

Thats what happend in toronto on the weekend, both dogs were suited in big studded collars, BIG SHOCK!

[beagle]

Hey sincity sorry if I jumped the gun there, there is just to much misinformation on the breed, I own them like many others do and lately it feels like it is open season on pitbulls.

I am curious as to what happened to any of these owners that owned the dogs that attacked. Nothing I guess we don't hear about it anyways. Also another thing is that alot of these dogs that have attacked have always seem to be the family pet for like ten years or something and then all of a sudden it loses it.
None of these owners want to take responsiblilty for there dogs actions because of some consequences they can face so of course it is always going to be a great dog that snapped for no reason.

Also someone had said earlier that we expect these dogs to indure the impossible and then we punish them because they slip up. All to often it is actually the person at fault for the bite and not the dog. I no of one dog (that was just a mixed breed) that had bit a kid after the boy stuck a pencil in it's eye!! It was just a bite ( not an attack) and the dog was put down. If a kid stuck a pencil in my eye it would be getting a hell of alot more then just a bite. Dogs just have no other way of speaking up for themselves. I try to teach my kids the proper way act around a dog and if they ever get a nip from one of them do to there own stupidity then they are going to get as much of punishment as if the dog would.
The bottom line is here that people have to be held responsible for their dogs, alot of people should not even own dogs not to mention a pitbull. Strict laws have got to be put into place (not bannes cause they will do nothing) and inforced to the fullest.

Maybe cities should make it manadatory for ALL dog owners to get a license and if they slip up with the laws they lose there dog and the right to own one.

People have got to be protected from bad owners not the dogs and the dogs have got to be protected from the bad owners.

Todd

[marisa]

"I also think its incredibly naive to continuosly compare pits to other dogs. A normal dog will give a minute bite (lab etc) and in very rare cases, a mauling. Pitbuls almost always maim who they attack given the oprotunity to "

Yes this is a good point but at the same time, there are many other breeds that do this. My Jack Russell behaves very similar to a pit bull when she is attacking something.

One time a small rabbit made the mistake of jumping into our yard, my Jack got this rabbit and after breaking its neck and "gutting" most of it, (mauling) I saw what was going on and went to get the rest of the rabbit away from her. Let me tell you, I could have literally SWUNG her from this leftover rabbit body...she REFUSED to let go....eventually I had me holding her back end, and my roomate forcefully trying to open her mouth. No go. Finally she realized it was more trouble than it was worth, and droped it......an HOUR later.

It's not just pit bulls who refuse to let go, and maul. It's small terrier breeds as well. And like I mentioned before, even though my dog is small, she can be excitable and nip. People ignore what I say and pet her anyways on the street because they think "oh so small and cute!" but she can MOST CERTAINTLY do some damage to a human if she got ahold of a leg or hand.

And also like I said before, I really don't feel there is any solution to this problem aside from making EVERY single dog owner get a PROPER education and license before purchasing ANY dog. If you are stopped while walking your dog and do not have your license on you, you are fined. Period.

Marisa

[beagle]

Lisa Marie, I agree with you one hundred percent.

V.hb, how can you say that when a lab or any other dog then a pitty bites that it is usually minuit. Do you call stiches, losing an eye and being scarred for life minuit. Any dog can give someone stiches. Not all pitty's are going to give a full blown attack either they might just give a nip to let you know you did something wrong. The ones that have attacked are poorly trained and poorly bred dogs that were in the hands of an irresponsible dog owner and were also sad examples of the breed.

Todd

[beagle]

Originally posted by sincity
Well i'm off to the dogfights.

LOL!!

[NewLineReptile]

Originally posted by marisa
What they should license is ANYONE who wants to own a dog.

ANY dog can become a monster, and attack someone. Not just pits. But the general public likes to rid itself of anything they think is the problem, except themselves. The owners are as much to blame in ANY dog attack as a dog is.

Pit bulls have passed temperment tests as much or more often than so called "friendly" breeds. But low and behold, you never hear about a lab bite even though many many do in fact happen.

Marisa

I 100% agree good points in there Marisa

Brandon

[V.hb]

IMO jack russels are nasty little buggers too. Least they're controllable compared to a pitbull. I mean if I had a jack chasing me (because their idiotic owner hasnt heard of a leash) i dont think id be too intimidated. On the other hand, a pitbull running at me would be a different story.


I still agree, its the owners. But sometimes as the saying goes, one bad apple spoils it for all! And i personally think it's the only way to control this situation (either mass banning, or the forcement of mass licensing). I know many people who own pits becuase they're "pits". They do take care of them, but just the whole point of owning a breed because its a pitbull is incredibly ********. They should all be registered and microchipped, so if any attacks happen in the future, the owner is held liable and will not be able to own ANY dogs in the future. Period.

[Matt_K]

Im all for the microchipping of these breeds (yes, mine is chipped).. I also agree that something OTHER then banning NEEDS to be done.. Banning isn't the answer, people will just move onto another breed or keep their pits in the basement so no one knows..

Everyone has made some really good points here..