question about petitioning... - Page 2

concept3 · 07-14-04, 02:06 AM

emilsmee, whats with you and abortions? your gonna offend someone with that kind of smack

Cruciform · 07-14-04, 08:28 AM

Mykee,

Funny how you call me a mouthy bitch in private, then accuse me of name calling. Yet I didn't call you anything. I just said I was sick of your attitude.

You typically respond with a know it all attitude. A kid comes in to one of the other forums and says "I just got a XXXXX. I have it on sand, and I'm feeding it XXXX. Then asks some questions. Then you would usually respond with "What the hell are you keeping it on sand for" or some exclamation, rather than just offering them some useful advice.

You also told me that we're all entitled to our own opinions, so I should shut up, then called me immature.

Pot meet kettle.

I haven't said the info you provide to people isn't useful or knowledgeable. You just suck at the delivery.

Cruciform · 07-14-04, 09:43 AM

Anyway, back on topic.

The problem with letting existing by-laws stay as they are is that once they are in place, they're only going to become more strict over time.

Every bit of bad press about reptile owners will stick in their memories, because you never hear anything about "Herp owner raises healthy pets for 30 years.", or "Harmless ball python kept in apartment".

Our councils are supposed to represent the people, but they often end up only supporting the vocal minorities because that's the only groups they hear from. If someone complains about snakes, and no one steps up to defend the animals or their owners, you get a new law about 60 cm limits, or complete bans, within a city.

It's not the average, enforce-by-complaint bylaw that you see today that is the problem. It's the next version of it where they resolve to destroy any exotic animal they find within city limits. Looks at some of the proposed laws being sponsored in the US. Soon it may be illegal to breed snakes at all in some places. How would you like to be a breeder and have your collection seized and destroyed because you posted a pic of a new batch of young on the forums.

Even if you can't get by-laws removed, having them amended to clarify or correct is a big step forward.

M_surinamensis · 07-14-04, 10:17 AM

To the original poster... As has been mentioned, local petitions can be the first step in identifying what kind of battle you have before you. At the very least it generates a list of people who might be inclined to help with further attempts should the petition in and of itself prove ineffectual in swaying the local legislative bodies. Internet petitions are of questionable value but handwritten signatures from residents? Go for it.

There is no such thing as a responsible reptile owner who disobeys animal laws either Mykee. If you were keeping animals in violation of local laws, when your idiot *** gets caught, it just makes life harder for everyone else. Either apply for the required permits or work to change the laws, circumventing them is what criminals do and you have no business calling yourself responsible if you're doing so or encouraging others to do so.

emilsmee · 07-14-04, 07:31 PM

yeah and M_surinamensis, how better to reach these herp lovin' residents than working in an exotic petstore, eh?
and mykee, your posts really haven't helped. not trying to be mean, but it really was nothing other than a blatent attempt to bring someone down (for who knows what reason).
n e way, enough negativity in my thread. i was only looking for a number of sigs i'd need... thats it...
so if anyone knows how many thats the only response i'm looking for, ok?
also, thanks everyone for your words of support! (i don't mind those comments either, lol)

CamHanna · 07-14-04, 10:51 PM

I really can't help you with your petition question but I can say that letters from informed individuals often recieve a lot more consideration from those responsible for changing by-laws. In addition to this, letters from out-of-towners more likely to 'count' then out-of-towners signitures, simply because they can viewed as a responsable, concerned expert rather than just some dolt who can spell their own name. We are fortunate here at ssnakess.com to have a large number of people all concerned with the plight of the urban herper. I'm sure if you further drew their attention to the issue and provided an e-mail address several of them would donate a letter, I know I would. I think it would certainly be worth a try. If you could get together some info on this by-law and where to write to change it and but it in a new thread (one not tainted by such pessimism), you would get some good responces. Windsor cannot have more then a couple dozen paranoid citizens who brought this by-law about, I bet we can match those numbers.

Good Luck, I look forward to your reply.

Cam Hanna

emilsmee · 07-15-04, 12:19 AM

yeah thanks! my email address is emilsmee@yahoo.com if anyone wants to forward a letter that i can print out and send to city council. but keep in mind, i'm not trying to get rid of the by-law, just adjust it so it's not so generalized and sketchy. here's a couple quotes from the by-law that should help understand how silly it's worded, and btw, it was made in 1985, maybe it is time for a change:

"exotic animal" means an animal not indigenous to Canada and not commonly kept as a household pet in Canada, whether or not such animal is a "wild animal" as defined herein"

"it's illegal to keep non-poisonous snake whose adult length is 600 mm (2 ft.) or more on public property without license."

"any exotic animal, venomous snakes and snakes not indigenous to Canada, venomous reptiles, venomous insects or venomous spiders"

"any snake, reptile, insect or spider not otherwise prohibited by this by-law unless they are housed in an escape-proof enclosure"
-on a side note, it really doesn't seem to matter about the escape-proof enclosure, i've asked...

if you'd like to read further into it, here's the link to the full by-law:
http://www.citywindsor.ca/DisplayAttach.asp?AttachID=10

thanks for the interest!
emily

RepTylE · 07-15-04, 04:50 AM

I am not sure if it is possible to fight city hall but I for one would not disuade anyone from trying. Just get as many signatures as possible and take a shot at it. I thought that the political rule of thumb was that one signature represents a thousand voters in a politician's viewpoint. Well municipally it might by a hundred lol.
I have been in Green Earth and have seen people looking at the herps, the supporters are out there just get their signatures when they come in. Maybe send a copy right to Eddie Francis' desk at city hall.
Still changing people's minds is not going to be easy.

cjice · 07-16-04, 04:48 PM

I dont want to "open a can of worms here", and being a newcomer, I dont want to get off on a bad foot, but...I have been reading posts for a while and I have to agree with Cruciform. Mykee does have a tendancy to "attack" people instead of politely giving advice. I will say that he/she does seem to know a lot about snakes..etc...etc. But being rude and making people feel stupid for asking certain questions doesnt help us OR the snakes. There are plenty of other people on this site who seem to give out as wonderful advice as mykee, but in a kind way. This site is successful for a number of reasons, snakes and PEOPLE being a couple of those reasons. Now, I know I am at risk of a thrashing from mykee for this post but at least I wont be the minority..lol...People who make mistakes with their snakes arent neccessarily bad people...Hence, people who know a lot about snakes arent neccessarly good people. Like I said, we need the snakes AND the people for this site. If we were all know-it-alls and rude...we wouldnt need this site for help and advice...I hope I am still welcome here cuz I am still learning...thx for listening

CamHanna · 07-17-04, 10:05 AM

Ya know,

Once you get to writing a letter this is a hard by-lay to oppose, it's very disagreeable but hard to offer a good arguement against.

'Reptiles' (Jan, 1999) lists the best 5 beginner snakes as the corn, bp, colombian boa, cal king and rosy boa; all of which grow over 60 cm. I would seem like Windsor would want it's citizens to practice on these larger, easier snakes before going on to the legal ones, but that's a lot like saying "medical pot is too hard to grow, with all the paperwork and such, why don't you let us practice with the street kind."

I'm still working on a letter.

Cam Hanna

emilsmee · 07-17-04, 02:31 PM

thanks very much CamHanna!

and cjice, one thing i've learned working in retail is that people are usually either negative or positive (and this can change day to day), but regardless they both know how to voice their opinions. the question is, who are you going to listen to and take to heart, the good one or the bad one?

emily