The cost of doing business???

[Katt]

Oh yes, sorry Jeff for hijacking your thread.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I hear what you're saying guys, but hike the price all you want. People need gas to get to work, but people certainly do not need reptiles. Buyers will still dictate what you will sell at.

Nobody mentioned hiking any prices at all. We just said that we think the trade in living things is slightly more than what the current rate is (for some animals). No one said anythign otherwise. Furthermore, I even SAID that what the end consumer was willing to pay was one of the most important factors!! LOL!

In Canada you have the option to sell to the States, but, what if you're already an American?

If you're a Canuck and you're going to sell internationally, there are a heck of a lot more lucrative markets than the United States.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ha ha and its not hi-jacking. As much as I like the husbandry and natural history side of animals, the business side can be just as fascinating (sometimes). LOL! I just thank all for participating!

[Katt]

I was replying mostly to Julie who mentioned raising prices.

As for lucrative markets well, I guess you got to figure out if it's worth the hassle of paperwork.

[Tim and Julie B]

I must say Jeff, you've certainly "kicked it up a notch" in here! I like it. I think I should try to drum up some chatter in other forums LOL Thanks for the compliments btw, But honestly I just like the term "flogged" and tried really hard to use it in a post.........

Yes Katt, people certainly don't NEED reptiles, but as pretty much all of us know once you're hooked, you're hooked. I am fairly certain that if people went to shows and saw that everything was a few dollars more, or that breeders weren't giving out "deals on multiples" that they'd be pretty P***** about it, but they'd come back the second day after checking out pet store prices and what not, and would be willing to pay that little extra.

If breeders, big or small, would charge more then the market would certainly bend. In fact, there would be no market without breeders. (Many would say there's no market without buyers, but what exactly is to be bought if nothing is created?) WE determine the market, most of us just choose not to.

Julie

[Vanan]

I guess what it all boils down to is, if you're primarily a hobbyist or a businessperson. *ducks*

[Tim_Cranwill]

Originally posted by Vanan
I guess what it all boils down to is, if you're primarily a hobbyist or a businessperson. *ducks*

What? You can't be both?!?!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I guess what it all boils down to is, if you're primarily a hobbyist or a businessperson. *ducks*

I'd be extremely disappointed if you couldn't be both. If they were mutually exclusive, then I think the whole thing would just collapse. No way "regular" people would fill the void that dedicated breeders are filling right now.

I agree Julie. Trying to get all the breeders on the same page though? Ha ha I think it'd be easier to double clutch a Boelen's Python, LOL! Aside from short-sighted, always-in-need-of-funds-type of breeders, a lot of breeders simply don't get along (a true shame) and almost seem to screw each other over out of spite! Even if it hurts themselves!

And because of this, its become a buyer's market in a HUGE way.

Great post though!!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Crannie and his pointy fingers beat me to my first point dammit!

[Scales Zoo]

That is what is so interesting about this thread. It's a hobby turned business for many of us younger folk, and the lines are beginning to fade, and it is good to step back and look at the situation every once and a while.

Just this fall, I remembered why I got into it in the first place. I now breed the snakes I like, regardless of saleability. I used to keep the snakes that would sell - and started to base my collection around that. Jeff mentioned he keeps JCP's because he likes them, rather than keeping Diamonds which would make him rich. I guess he'd have to wait 5 years growing up diamonds - and I can't see him doing that either.

Ryan

[Jeff_Favelle]

That is what is so interesting about this thread. It's a hobby turned business for many of us younger folk, and the lines are beginning to fade, and it is good to step back and look at the situation every once and a while.

Just this fall, I remembered why I got into it in the first place. I now breed the snakes I like, regardless of saleability. I used to keep the snakes that would sell - and started to base my collection around that. Jeff mentioned he keeps JCP's because he likes them, rather than keeping Diamonds which would make him rich. I guess he'd have to wait 5 years growing up diamonds - and I can't see him doing that either.

Totally man. It has to be about what interests you and is fun. That's why I do it anyways.

I don't mind waiting though. If Diamonds interested me, I would have got them at the same time Don did. 5 years is nothing. I've waited 6 to breed some female Ball Pythons, and I waited 6 years to breed my first ever pair of Rainbow Boas. I'm waiting until the 4th year on all my Bci, and I waited on the 3rd year for 2 of my female albino Hondurans when they could have EASILY gone at 18 months. Patience is one thing I will always have, and I truly think it is a feather in the cap of any breeder. Impatient breeders usually fade away. I can name 10 off the top of my head that came to this site alone with brand new websites, spent thousands, and were all set, only to sell everything off within 2 years. Impatient. I cannot name a single animal that I bought (other than all thou$and$ in frogs that were impossible to breed) that I didn't eventually breed. Everything comes to those who wait. I don't make nearly the amount of $$-cake-$$ that some other breeders in Canada make, but I do know that everything passes through my facility produces. Proof is in the pudding.

The only thing I don't have paitience for is the damn Ball Pythons! LOL! Such a wicked (in the truest sense of the word) species to work with, ha ha!

[Katt]

I think what Vanan is saying, is that there's a difference between those who keep their hobby as a hobby and lose cash, and those whose hobby starts to pay for other things, like projection sets. Bottom line has little meaning for straight hobbyists, while for others, there needs to be a bottom line.

Main Entry: 2hobby
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hobbies
Etymology: short for hobbyhorse
: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation
- hob·by·ist /-bE-ist/ noun

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

[Derrick]

Tim and Julie B

but they'd come back the second day after checking out pet store prices and what not, and would be willing to pay that little extra.

I'll agree with that. The LPS sells snow corns here for 180$ and I know they pay 45$ for them. I had a little accident here and ended up with a clutch of snows. they havent even hatched yet and I have people waiting on 10 of 13 at 60-80 dollars. plus I'll be selling them feeders which even if I double the price I paid is half what the LPS sell them for

[Jeff_Favelle]

I think what Vanan is saying, is that there's a difference between those who keep their hobby as a hobby and lose cash, and those whose hobby starts to pay for other things, like projection sets. Bottom line has little meaning for straight hobbyists, while for others, there needs to be a bottom line.

I think that is fairly obvious, and really is inutitive. Obviously someone who owns 3 snakes and pays to keep them as pets is different than a breeder who produces hundreds. I'm not sure it needs to be pointed out. And I'm not sure that the hobbyist, other than from a customer-standpoint, even factors into this discussion. Do they? If so, where? The topic what should the packing and handling of reptiles be subsidized by the sale of them? Not whether or not there's a difference between someone who keeps a leo gecko in an aquarium compared to a large-scale breeder. I don't get the connection?

[Tim_Cranwill]

Also, who is to say that a "hobbyist" is better than a "business person/breeder" or even cares for their animals better/more???

Really?

Do you really feel that a casual keeper is more noble or something?

Just because somebody wants to take the opportunity/risk of turning their hobby into a small business, that doesn't make them less of an animal lover.

Is a writer who has his/her stories published, less of a writer just because there is money being made? And does a reader love literature more just because they don't write?

See what I mean?

It just comes across kind of pompous to me when people make comments like that… not to say that is your feeling…