The cost of doing business???

[Jeff_Favelle]

Stop tripping over the pennies on the way to making dollars

Kwok, that' the best quote of heard since Trev's signature! LOL! That should be every snake breeder's motto! Ha ha!!

[Tim and Julie B]

Yup, I love loud, ripping, rumbling bikes (the rumbling is the best part-c'mon ladies I know you'd agree). But Vanan, I've tried to convince Tim to be my biker b****, but he won't go for it. Guess he can stick with the terrainers! LOL

And I agree with David's quote too. It kind of sums up everything about our hobby/business. Good one! And yes Jeff, free market research is sweet. Especially when focused directly within it's consumer category. Still, I'd like to see more posts from the thousands of members here that are strictly buyers. It would be interesting to get some more opinions from the other demographic.

Julie

[Jeff_Favelle]

LOL.

[Vanan]

Yup, I love loud, ripping, rumbling bikes (the rumbling is the best part-c'mon ladies I know you'd agree). But Vanan, I've tried to convince Tim to be my biker b****, but he won't go for it.

LMAO!!! Poor Tim!

[David Kwok]

Kwok, that' the best quote of heard since Trev's signature! LOL! That should be every snake breeder's motto! Ha ha!!

I don't know if it should be every snake breeders motto.... but from the title of the thread you want to put everything in a "business" context. So I am telling you to stop tripping.

Now that you have complainted about the cost side of it, why don't you complain a bit about the Revenue side of it.

How much in Cash sales did you do to incur such a huge 750$ expence in the year?

$20 an hour? what else would you have been doing that would better suit your time then drive a box of snakes to the airport?

Not trying to start a fight here, but if you are trying to run a business you will have expenses. And of course big business = big expenses. Whether it's your personal time, opportunity cost of capital, space, future earnings.

Maybe you should sell your collection to me that will solve your expense problem.

Cheers!
Dave

[Jeff Hathaway]

Great thread, everyone! As a few people have said, I think you can go either way (separate handling charge, or just a higher price), but whichever you do, just be very clear about it. I always hate thinking that I'm paying X for something only to find out at the last minute that it is actually X+Y. However, when I see it clearly stated on a price list, website, etc. that there is an extra charge for something, I don't see it as a problem. Obviously though, if I can buy the same thing without the extra costs (by picking it up, etc.) then I might do that.

Pricing a product or service is always a challenge when expenses are variable between transactions. Someone illustrated nicely how it works for retailers- the costs are all determined regardless of who walks through the door. I think this can hold true for shipping boxes, driving to the airport, etc. because you should know already what these things will cost. So, you either put it in the price, and offer a discount for people who pick it up (or not since they take up an hour of your time touring your collection), or you set a price for the animal and charge extra for the cases where you ship. I suppose that which way you might go depends upon whether most of your business is done by shipping or by pick up. Personally, I don't ship anything, since I don't breed anything that anyone really wants that badly. But, if someone did want me to ship them a baby corn snake, I would definitely have to charge extra for a box and driving it 75 minutes to the airport.

However this is a little different: "For example, I do drywall for a living... I get the rate that is a standard pay (same as union) and never get paid for gas that gets me to work so why should people as breeders expect to be paid to get the animals (which is your job) to the airport"

Jeff, when you work this way, are you an employee or a contractor? If you're an employee, and you get paid hourly regardless of what you're doing (which would generally include driving to the jobsite if it is out of town) that is one thing. But if you're a contractor, and you don't include the cost of driving to jobsites, then you're likely either overcharging those customers close to you or undercharging those farther away, or both. Therefore, you'll make less money (or lose) on some jobs, and not get awarded others because you overbid. For the limited amount of construction contracting I still do, I definitely include travel expenses- often a mileage charge for gas, wear & tear, etc. plus an hourly charge for the driving. If you're driving any significant distance to the jobsite, how could you not do this?

To answer another question- we generally charge less at shows than normal, because there are other people there selling the same things for less than we normally sell for. Since our typical private customers are not 'hobbiests', we can sell at slightly higher prices to them.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Cruciform]

This has been a great thread to read. Just thought I'd add one little tidbit from an online purchase in the past.

I was looking for a hard to find game for the Gameboy Advance. I found it on an American site for a reasonable price. The shipping fee was reasonable, but when they tacked on the "handling" fee, it was almost equal to the price of the game.

The game arrives in the mail, and I look at the shipping stamps only to discover it cost them a total of $1.60 to send me the package. The mark-up to ship it was over 1000 percent.

Now if someone wants to figure reasonable costs into the expense of shipping, as stated in the 12 dollars worth of packaging, then great.

If people were artificially inflating the shipping costs to drive up the price, then that would be unethical. But that's not what the thread has been about. It's about reasonable costs.

Some people have said that if it's a more expensive snake it's just cheap to want to recoup those costs. But the price of the snake is dictated by market conditions, eg. demand in a capitalist market, and it's not unreasonable to factor in fair market value + shipping + expenses to come up with a price.

The worst that can happen is someone takes their business somewhere else. There are many factors that determine what people are willing to pay. And in this hobby/business reputation seems to have a huge influence.

I don't think I'd dicker over paying a premium for a healthy, well treated animal from a reputable breeder who stands by their animals. By the time I got to the point of purchase I'd hope to have done enough research on the seller to know if I was getting my moneys worth.

Ramble done

[spidergecko]

Originally posted by Cruciform
The game arrives in the mail, and I look at the shipping stamps only to discover it cost them a total of $1.60 to send me the package. The mark-up to ship it was over 1000 percent.

More about this: I ordered an item and the seller tacked on a $20 shipping cost. I received the item and looked at the stamps: $9. I thought, "Well he must have not known the actual cost and since I sent the money before he went to the post office, I'll accept this higher price." I ordered something from him again thinking he would give me a reduced or at least "honest" shipping charge. Nope, I gave him $20, the actual cost was $7.

On to something else, I think someone who understands that packing supplies can be expensive is more willing to accept a box charge (even if it's not advertised) than someone who doesn't ship. As I've said before, I'm willing to pay this box charge because I've done my own research for shipping. It really does cost $12 to pack an animal. Considering I am selling < $20 animals sometimes I think I'm quite allowed to request this fee.

[Cruciform]

I agree.

There's a lot more involved in shipping an animal than a game.

In my case all they did was put a another box around the original box, and put a shipping label on it. No protective packaging or any other measures. So It didn't need 18 to 20 dollars American worth of shipping costs, for a carboard sleeve and a sticker.

Heat packs, insulating materials, and such do cost money for the shipper though and are an honest expense. I won't begrudge anyone for recouping those costs.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Mike,

Could part of the shipping cost have been their gas to buy the stamps??

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[jjnnbns]

I haven't had to ship any offspring yet as my creatures will not be breeding until this coming season, but what I was planning on was having a shipping AND handling charge all as one. Find out what it costs to overnight or same day the package, as well as the cost of packing/heating materials and add all of it as the shipping charge.

i.e.

A person is interested in one of my snakes and would like it shipped. If the actual shipping cost is $30 and the packaging is around $12, I would quote them at $45 in order to ensure that I would not be losing money by accomodating them by shipping a live animal.

As long as they know that the charge is for the box, styro, heat, shipping etc... then I would assume that would be fine. That is how I felt when I had my animals originally shipped to me.

[Lisa]

You think those shipping rates are bad, I went to order some radios from midland in the states... they wanted $1000 US for a package of 3 pound radios. I want to know if they're going to deliver by horse back with a stripping messanger.

[jjaj02]

Ok, I haven't read this entire thread because its soooo long and I don't have enought time today but here is what I think. Oh and if some of the stuff that I am saying has been said already please excuse me. I think that the price of herps as dropped significantly in the last 5 years or so. Maybe not all of them but some of them have definatly dropped. It's because of these people that cut corners to undersell reputable breeders. In return these reputable breeders have to drop their prices to compete with "backyard" breeders. So really I think sometimes these people that bitch about prices are getting an awesome deal anyways. But cheap people will be cheap people I guess. I think that the prices of snakes should be higher. I don't think that (a lot) of times people are selling them for what they are worth any more. But I guess these people who are trying to make a quick buck by cutting corners are the ones that really set the prices. If breeders wanna throw on an extra couple of bucks for boxing or handling or whatever. I say go for it. They already arent getting what the snake is worth so why lose out even further. I don't know..........just my two cents.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Now that you have complainted about the cost side of it, why don't you complain a bit about the Revenue side of it.

I fail to see where I was complaing about anything. I even went as far to say in my FIRST post that I WASN'T complaining, LOL! Go back and re-read that part, because I think you missed it.

I was just thinking out loud and asking other's for their thoughts as well. Nothing wrong with that. I never complained once. My only complaint is that you think I was complaining about it. Please show me where I was.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Thanx spidergecko! Great post and insight. Exactly what I was looking for. Obviously charging people is out of the question. I never have, and likely never will. But knowing that people like yourself can be reasonable to the suggestion of it still shows me that decent and thoughful people are still existing somewhere. Thanks for the input man! Appreciate it!