Snake interaction with other snakes?

[ChristinaM]

Not sure where this question belongs, but since I have mainly boa's, thought I'd try here.

Do you let your snakes interact with each other at all? Or would they get aggressive?

I'm not meaning to mate. Not at all. as I have diffrent boa's.

I have a hog isle, a brazilian rainbow, and a colombian bci.

My main thought was showing my b ! tchy hog isle, how calm my colombian is and hoping it would help her not be as spazzy.

Do they enjoy companionship at all?

Thanks.

edit: in case it wasn't clear, I don't mean caging.....I mean having more than one out at a time.

[ReptiZone]

I would say not a good I dea to do that just cause the method you are trying to use is realy useles Lets Face it snakes are Stupide LOL the rely on instict the dont care what the othe guy is doing as long as what they are doing works for them.

and then there is the risk of trasmiting diseases to them what may be normal to one could be fatal to the other.
it is just not a safe Practice on so many diffrent levels.
hope this helped a bit.

The ReptiZone
Marc Doiron

[Simon]

I too don't think that it would work....

heck I think that it would cause more stress on the hog and just make it so that its another 'target' for the hog to strike at...so that is why I don't think that it'll work.....

just keep on handling it. If it strikes at you, the most important thing is not to let it back. Let her know that you're in control and you're not going to let her get what she wants (getting back in the enclosure and leaving her alone) after she bites you or strikes at you or hisses at you~~

LOL...I guess keep bugging her!!

[marisa]

"My main thought was showing my b ! tchy hog isle, how calm my colombian is and hoping it would help her not be as spazzy."

I don't really understand how thats supposed to work?? They don't learn by watching other snake species, other snakes like them, tv, or anything else. If one snake is "spazzy" then it simply needs more handling, or that's its attitude. Not all snakes will become calm.

Marisa

[ChristinaM]

Originally posted by marisa

I don't really understand how thats supposed to work?? They don't learn by watching other snake species, other snakes like them, tv, or anything else. If one snake is "spazzy" then it simply needs more handling, or that's its attitude. Not all snakes will become calm.

Marisa

Well, I don't understand how I am supposed to know that they can't learn from behaviours of other snakes. Yah though, I was gonna plant her in front of the tv to watch some calm snake cartoon and hopes that teaches her I may be a noob, but I am not an idiot.

Generally speaking some species can learn by watching others. I simply inquired as to whether this applied to snakes as well.

[ortega]

u mean the way a puppy will learn from another dog. Seems like a legitimate question to me.

[lostwithin]

Hey, well I agree with ortega it's a legitimate question nothing wrong at all with asking that’s how people learn.

As far as anybody knows snakes do not mimic behaviors of others. Putting another snake there would probably make no difference, but may cause more stress.
The Only way too calm down the snake is too have it become acclimated too having you around. Once it realizes you are no threat it will not care if your holding it, some snakes never learn this. I have heard of placing a piece of clothing in the cage that has you "scent" on it can help, it lets the snake get used too your scent, but I have never tired this, I normally just place my hand as close too the snake as I feel comfortable, as soon as it gets used too this I move closer until eventually I can touch the snake. After a while of the snake being "touchable" without it being bothered bye it, then work you way from holding it just inside its cage without picking it up. Then eventually it should calm down completely. Patience is everything with this sort of thing. Every time the snake is "forced" closer then it feels comfortable you’re actually reinforcing its fear. take it slow, that’s all you can do. and DON’T be nervous, you would be amazed how much being nervous around ANY animal makes a difference.

As for having snakes interact as long as they are the same size they shouldn’t harm each other, unless it's a species that is known for eating snakes. But For boids you shouldn’t have many problems if they are interacting. If one seems stressed then you know it bothers it.
Good luck,
Devon

[M_surinamensis]

Generally speaking some species can learn by watching others. I simply inquired as to whether this applied to snakes as well.

... Species which are raised by their parents. Reptiles are by and large abandoned at or before birth and even the few species which enjoy minimal protection as juveniles have instinct driven behavior which allows them to survive without the protection.

If it strikes at you, the most important thing is not to let it back. Let her know that you're in control and you're not going to let her get what she wants (getting back in the enclosure and leaving her alone) after she bites you or strikes at you or hisses at you.

This won't work either. All that anthropomorphic crap about showing a snake (or any reptile) "who's boss" is just that... Crap. Not reacting to bites is a great way to train a puppy or a bird or a human child. Understanding that another organism is or is not reacting in the manner that a behavior is intended to force it to requires the ability to understand an abstract. An agressive bird will bite you and reccognize the relationship between the bite and a human leaving it alone. An agressive snake bites because a few nerve cells in the brain fired off and made it bite- it's a behavior which may or may not be evolutionarily successful, when it is unsuccessful the individual animal doesn't "learn" it simply doesn't end up passing on it's less than successful genes. About as close as snakes come to an actual learning behavior is pattern reccognition when there is an associated instinctive behavior. Examples of this are things such as feeding responses- the instinctive responses are all there, they have simply expanded slightly to include the rubbermaid tub as an area where food is likely. Even the most intelligent snakes won't "learn" in the manner the above quote suggests and boids are FAR from being intelligent even for snakes. The poster who wrote that really is showing an amazing ignorance of reptile biology and their advice will just get you chewed up even more.

More frequent handling can have an effect on how likely any individual animal is to try and remove some skin... But the change doesn't occur with the animal, it occurs in the keeper. These guys react to stimulus with almost comuter-like predictability; it's cold they seek warmth, prey (prey they reccognize on an instinctive level when in a condition where feeding is appropriate) appears, they grab it, a potential predator shows up there is a very limited range of responses... What frequent (appropriate and non-stressful) handling really does is teach the KEEPER what the snake's triggers are. Handle a snake for a period of time and you will subconsciously begin to avoid the approach which causes a negative reaction. If coming in from above causes a nasty response, you'll automatically move in from the sides or below... if pressure on the tail or head or neck is the trigger, you'll pick the animal up solely by the mid body, if it's a time of day, the environment (many animals are "cage agressive" where they react poorly to the initial contact but are fairly mellow after a few seconds), the angle of approach... Whatever... you learn it and respond accordingly. When you handle enough animals of varying species, it becomes almost second nature and even animals you are unfamiliar with as individuals (snakes have very little true individuality) are approached in a manner which works *for the species*

[lostwithin]

M_surinamensis , I would have too disagree with some of what you said, although you had some good points you seem too be giving Boids a slightly lower intelligence level then they deserve, Although I do completely agree there reactions are mainly instinctive the fact that they can associate feeding with an object shows some "learning" process. If it was completely instinctive the snake would have no higher response in a "Feeding container" then anywhere else. I have myself noticed as I’m sure many people have that if you repeat the same process the snake will learn too associate it with food. For example if you use a specific door for feeding and only feeding the snake will associate that door with food coming through and once it has established this would strike at any object coming through that door. Or as I’ve noticed with my burm recently, when I pick up the feeding tongs he instantly becomes interested in what I’m doing weather there food near bye or not, it clearly realizes those are for feeding. Although I agree that the idea of "not backing down" is a bad choice it doesn’t mean that snake wouldn’t realize its biting isn’t having an effect. But would cause allot of stress as I stated above, the snake still associates you with being a threat. The more you force interaction the more you reinforce this opinion and it and will still bite and be aggressive.

I do however agree completely that you learn how too approach snakes and read snakes. As you become more accustom too dealing with them that was a very good point. Your actions can cause the snakes "instinctive" reactions.

[M_surinamensis]

Feeding associations are just pattern reccognition though...

Feeding responses, the heightened activity level and sensitivity to their surroundings are a normal and natural thing and exist in every species. There are certain triggers which prompt a feeding response, things that are instinctively reccognized as "prey" be it a scent, a temperature, an angle of approach, a shape, a pattern of movement... Each species differs but each species has particular triggers which prompt a stronger feeding response.

The ability to reccognize patterns is not too well developed... it takes a great deal of repetition for an association to be formed. A mammal in a new environment might locate a food dish. After finding the food dish, it remembers where it is and will automatically seek out the area and the dish the next time it's hungry... Reptiles take far longer to develop similar associations. As far as reptiles go, snakes in general are not the brightest animals, they don't need to be. This is especially true of species and groups which are predominantly ambush predators. A cobra needs to think, as it actively hunts. A boid just sits and waits, this doesn't require anything more complex than "There is prey, grab"

The association between an area and something to which there is a preexisting instinct can be found in nature as well... It's like a burm locating a path which mammals take from their dens to a water source or a cave dwelling ratsnake parking itself right where the bats fly by... The instinct to feed already exists, it simply modifys very very slightly to encompass a likely means of locating prey items.

Similar instinctive triggers are in place to denote a potential predator... Like I said, certain species will ALWAYS react badly if approached from above or if the head is touched or if the body is wrapped up where others will not. The problem here is that there is no real instinctive response to a stimulus which is not a predator, not prey and not something to mate with. This means that a snake does not have the capability to take something which triggers a threat response and move it into another "group" where no deffensive behavior is displayed. All that can be done is for a handler to make an attempt to understand what the defensive triggers are and avoid them as much as possible.

I think snakes are some of the greatest animals on the planet, simply from the view of my appreciation of their existance... certain boids are also among my personal favorites. I appreciate them for what they are and what they are not. I am constantly amazed and enthralled by the ecological niches they have managed to occupy, the evolutionary pressures which have caused their pattern, shape, color and behavior. I don't force them into human terms because it doesn't work and I honestly feel it's kind of insulting not to appreciate them as they are. Forcing a dog or cat or parrot into human terms works to a certain degree. There are biological similarities in the behavior and the way the brain functions so that a certain degree of anthropomorphis is acceptable. In this regard reptiles are alien to us, they don't think in a manner we associate with thought, don't behave in a manner which can be easily put into human terms and don't behave in a manner which can be modified as easily as the behavior of an endothermic organism which is raised by it's parents.

[lostwithin]

M_surinamensis,
That was very well said. I believe we agree on the main point I was arguing that you were giving the boids a lower "intelligence" but you were not, you realize that they are simply working off a more limited set of instincts. Dogs birds ect, seem too be more "intelligent" because they are using completely different instincts and these instincts help us condition them. With snakes there is only so much you can do, and like was previously stated the owner is actually the one that’s "learning" how too work with the snakes, not training the snake too work with them. I find many people consider snake unintelligent because of there uniqueness, but I disagree, they may be more difficult but this is simple because we cannot use there instincts too our advantage like we can with other animals instead we have too learn how too work with them.
Devon

[lostwithin]

ChristinaM,
Sorry about hijacking your post, ha ha ah,
Good luck with the little guy,
Devon

[ChristinaM]

Thank you both for the lengthy and informative posts. Muchly appreciated

I don't mind the hijacking LOL, hey it was a good hijack

[Piers]

Hogs are a little huffy and will bite but usually will calm down once they are in your hands.
piers