First feed...

Roan · 04-14-04, 01:15 AM

So Nyx has been "home" for a week. I decided to try to feed today. Looking at the size of the suggested mouse and the size of Nyx, I scratched my chin and figured if the snake decided it didn't like it, well, the snake would take care of things. Nyx took the mouse down like a champ, and has now eaten his first meal at home. I moved Nyx to a plastic storage container and introduced a mouse to whatever the equivalent of the great beyond is for them. A couple of minutes later Nyx had made a meal of the moment, and I had my Kodak all along. He's digesting now, and probably in a much happier demeanour now that I've figured out how to properly heat the tank. I went with the live feed because this was the first feed at home and I knew that Nyx was live fed at the store. As I learn more, and we get more comfortable with one another, I'm going to try to move away from live feeds and get in to keeping frozen mice around.

snakehunter · 04-14-04, 06:05 AM

Try to get him on f/t rats ASAP. Congrats on the feed.

Auskan · 04-14-04, 08:08 AM

I agree. One mouse isn't much of a meal for a BP, and as he gets bigger, you'll find he needs more and more mice for each meal - which will get pretty expensive. Try to get him on rats as soon as you can.

Roan · 04-14-04, 10:05 AM

Thinking back on yesterday's feed, I can't remember the particular store I went to having a mouse or rat that was in between the size I got and what I thought was too large. I know you can't take everything from everyone as "the way" to do things. The store I bought Nyx from suggested the size I bought. Maybe someone can help me out. I understand that typically a BP should not eat anything larger than the largest point of girth. I would say this mouse was that size before Nyx all but squeezed its insides out. Should I be able to readily find a smaller rat instead of mice or should I go with a rat that is slightly larger than the mouse? And if I stick with mice because of size, should I try to feed Nyx more than one at a time? I've read about power and force feeding and from what I gather that's not something I want to try. I'd like to have things as "natural" as possible for Nyx while keeping in mind the obvious, that a captive bred constrictor is still an animal. Will rats be more nutritious and is there a greater benefit to feeding my BP a larger meal even if it is pushing the size limits I'm reading about?

On another note, Nyx has retreated to his hide and hasn't been out for over 12 hours. Is it normal for a BP to hide while it processes a meal? I have my temps and humidity better regulated and closer to where it should be (I'm logging and testing temps to fine tune), so if it's a problem I don't think it's heat or humidity.

How long should I wait after feeding before I handle him again, and should I not handle him as much when it is closer to the next feeding time? The way I read things, the more you handle a healthy BP the more "affectionate" it will become, provided it is tolerable in the first place. Can I overhandle him and cause harm?

Verbosely-
Matt

sapphire_moon · 04-14-04, 10:39 AM

a bp can eat somthing 1.5-2 times it's biggest girth.
If his temps are fine (90-95 hot side and 80-85 cool side) then he will be fine, BP's are nocturnal anyways and will most likely hide most of the time.

I personally wait 3 days before handling him, and if it's a new snake I wait for 4 successfull feedings (about 1 month) in a row.

When getting ready to feed I don't handle the snake for atleats 1-2 days before I feed (a full 24hours)

Snakes in general are not "affectionate". They don't even like to be with a creature of the same species. So I doubt they are going to like to be handled and coddled.

Ball pythons stress easily. They are a pet that *seems* to be more to look at than play with.

As I said, ball pythons stress easily, and if you handle to much (some bp's are different than others though!) the snake may not eat for you.

Auskan · 04-14-04, 01:38 PM

A ball python can take an adult mouse straight out of the egg, so depending on how old yours is, he/she should be able to easily handle a larger meal than an adult mouse. The best guage is, as Sapphire Moon said, about 1 1/2 times the girth of the snake at its widest point. (As you noted, pet stores often give erroneous advice). You want the meal to leave a visible lump in the body. Some BPs however, don't like the idea of switching from mice to rats, so do a search in this forum and you will get some ideas on how to successfully switch. As for nutrition, it is believed that rats are more nutritious than mice, but the real reason for switching is that you will eventually have to feed a large number of mice to equal the meal size of one rat, which will get both tedious and expensive.

Hiding while digesting is normal, but you will find that BPs hide most of the time regardless of whether they're digesting or not. They are nocturnal so are more active at night - during the day you will rarely see them out. They like a hide that they have to cram themselves into and which touches their back, versus one that is roomy, and they will quite happily camp out in their hide most of the time. Make sure you have a hide on the warm side and the cool side so that he can effectively thermoregulate without having to choose between security and temperature.

I agree with not handling for sevearl days after a meal, and with BPs it is best to give them lengthy period of acclimatization before trying to handle. However I have never worried about it before a meal, and often handle prior to feeding. (On a side note, Sapphire is right that most will only tolerate, not enjoy handling, but there are exceptions to every rule. Mine does seem to enjoy it and will actually resist going back into her enclosure immediately after a meal. I have now found that her preference is to drape herself around my shoulders and sleep for the first hour or so after a meal, where I guess my shoulders act as a nice little heat pad for her to begin the digestive process. Only after she has been out for awhile, will she willingly go back into her enclosure).

sapphire_moon · 04-14-04, 02:48 PM

Actually the size of the snake determines the size of the meal, not the age of the snake.

I have heard people say that sometimes when a ball hatches it is only big enough to take a fuzzy mouse!

There are always exceptions to "the rule". Most people wouldn't reccomend handling after feeding the way Auskan does.

*most* (Not all as in auskans case) snake will regurgitate with excessive handling after they eat.

snakehunter · 04-14-04, 03:07 PM

I feed mine to the point where it is OBVIOUS she has eaten from about ten feet. When i put her back in her enclosure after a feed i can SEE the rat and some of its physical features while holding Fark. i Like to feed about 1/5 of her body wheight.

Roan · 04-14-04, 06:49 PM

It was obvious that he had eaten. I could make out the outline of the lump easily. If I cannot find a suitable sized rat until he gets larger is it ok to feed him two mice in one sitting or should I wait and see if he will take another mouse after a certain time period?

As for frozens, should I be able to get that at a pet store or can I buy a live mouse/rat and then just put it in a container in the freezer or do something else to kill it first and then feed dead?

sapphire_moon · 04-14-04, 09:43 PM

You should be able to get them at pet stores. If you buy live then kill, just whack it off a table or stair to kill it (make sure to whack the back of it's head) it will twitch a bit, but thats because of massive stimulation to the back of the head.

You might be able to find a breeder where you can buy from different sized rats.

Don't feed meals closer than every 5 days. It is fine to feed 2 mice at one sitting. It's just better to switch to rats asap because it's easier to feed one large rat than to feed 5 adult mice.

Auskan · 04-15-04, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sapphire_moon
Actually the size of the snake determines the size of the meal, not the age of the snake.

LOL, I didn't mean you base the size of the meal on the age of the snake! I meant that if this is not a hatchling, it will be bigger than a hatchling and therefore able to take a bigger meal.

Edit: Roan, don't ever just put a mouse/rat in the freezer to die. That is a very inhumane way to kill, as the animal first expends a lot of energy trying to stay warm, before finally becoming sleepy from hypothermia. If you do a search on these forums you will find lots of threads discussing different methods for killing humanely. If you are doing a lot at once, CO2 is a humane method. For just one or two, whacking is quick and fairly humane. To whack, I put mine in an opaque cloth drawstring bag and whack them onto the ceramic counter of my bathroom with as much force as I can, to make sure it only takes one whack to finish them off. Some people also recommend breaking their necks but that's not a method I've tried as I'm afraid of not getting it "right" the first time and ending up only hurting the rat.

Roan · 04-19-04, 11:46 PM

It looks like Nyx is about to go through a shedding cycle. His eyes have clouded and he seems to be soaking to loosen up his skin. He appeared to be very wary of the most minute movements around him when I came back in to find him soaking tonight. He is about due another feed. Should I feed him even though he seems to be a bit skiddish entering his shed cycle or should I wait until he is done and then try to feed? I've read that it can take as long as a feeding cycle (7-10 days at this stage, I believe) to properly shed.

daver676 · 04-20-04, 06:48 AM

I would suggest not feeding Nyx until he sheds. I would also suggest not handling him until he sheds.

So you had your Kodak with you during the feed....so where are the pics! Post 'um!!