Dumb heat tape question

Bighead · 02-13-04, 07:24 PM

In rack systems, the heat tape runs along the back wall, right?

I'm trying to figure out a bare-bones type rack system. I was thinking of basically just stacking the rubbermaids on top of each other to eliminate the need for seperate shelves. I know it won't be as convenient, but it will still work, right? There will still be walls around the top, bottom, back and both sides, just not in between. Am I missing something that will keep this from working? Thanks

Jeff_Favelle · 02-13-04, 08:29 PM

Yeah, to get at the bottom cage, you'll have to pull every other damn cage off of it. That sucks. Been there done that for exactly ONE season. That ended pretty quickly.

Bighead · 02-13-04, 08:46 PM

I figured that much but the enclosure is going to be 6 feet long and only three feet high, so it would only be 2 or 3 levels high. Maybe I'll try and make some little doors or something for feeding and changing water. Definitely still in the idea gathering process as you can see.
The rack will be doubling as a stand for my beardie cage if you were wondering about the wierd dimensions.
I would love any other ideas on how to do this as cheaply as possible.

Invictus · 02-14-04, 03:02 AM

Yeah, don't go cheap on the rack system - build the shelves, you'll thank yourself for it in the end.

And running the heat tape up the back is one way to do it. For this you'd need the 11" heat tape which is more energy efficient in terms of wattage per foot, but the tape itself is more expensive. If you want to go for belly heat, the 4" tape is what you can use, which is cheaper but less energy efficient. The Bean Farm's website shows the wattage per foot for each width. (www.thebeanfarm.com)

Bighead · 02-14-04, 04:41 AM

Ahh. I was wondering what the 3 and 4" heat tape was normally used for. I've been getting all my stuff from the bean farm lately. They seem like really cool people. I was refered to them by DNA Reptiles, where I got my beardies - also very cool people. If you are into crested geckos, look their way this coming year. They have an amazing group of them including a banana yellow one. I can't wait to see/buy some of his babies.

mykee · 02-14-04, 12:10 PM

Actually, 4" heat tape is rated as 8 watts per foot, where 11" tape is rated at 20 watts per foot. Do the math. I personally agree with Invictus is building a good rack so that you avoid all the problems with having built one just to build one in the future. I would run 4" tape along the belly of the racks not the 11" on the back. In my opinion, the '11" on the back idea' is a cop-out. Do it right the first time.

Siretsap · 02-14-04, 12:32 PM

There is a cheaper alternative. For about 40$ you can get a 300 watts 30 foot or 40 foot heating cable at canadian tire. I know people who have used it for years with success.

It's the one to melt the ice on your roof, not the ones for the water pipes.

Invictus · 02-14-04, 04:48 PM

The ones for the water pipes can be used too, if you're confident enough with your electrical abilities. There is a disc on them that senses the temperature and only activates the heat at -40. This is like any other circuit breaker - remove it and join the hot wires, you have a continuous circuit. Of course, you then MUST use a rheostat, because it will get HOT.

Siretsap - Do you know how hot the roof de-icer cable gets? I wanted to try this too, but for the cost, I didn't want to risk that it wouldn't get warm enough. If you don't know, can you ask the people who you know have used it? I'm really curious about that stuff.

morph · 02-14-04, 05:27 PM

Mykee just curious as to why the 11" along the back is a cop out. What exactly makes it "wrong"

Scott

mykee · 02-14-04, 05:40 PM

Maybe that was too strong a term to use. It seems to me that everyone who uses back heat isn't providing the proper heat required for snakes. Some feel it's too much work to router out a channel for the heat tape with belly heat. You also use less and it's much easier to install than belly heat. In my opinion, it's not a corner you can cut.

Jeff_Favelle · 02-14-04, 06:07 PM

I tried the heat tape (4") under the Rubbermaid and I didn't like it. For BIG female Ball Pythons, the heat wasn't localized enough, even though I had it right near the back. The bottom of the Rubbermaid just heated up, and as plastic is a good conductor of heat, the hot spot was just a huge part of like 1/3-1/2 the cage! That sucked, so I quickly switched to heat tape running down the back. This way, I can have a 95F localized hot spot, and it won't affect the other 75% of the cage. The Rubbermaid bins just aren't big (long) enough in my opinion to justify running the heat tape along the bottom. I'll never switch back to it.

mykee · 02-14-04, 07:30 PM

Jeff, doesn't that just mean you have all your balls pressed up agianst the back of the rubbermaids?

Stockwell · 02-14-04, 08:05 PM

Both systems will work. I've done it both ways.
For smaller snakes like rosy and sand boas, I like 3 inch or 4 inch under the bottom.
The problem Jeff points out is valid, but it's because of the size and girth of Ball Pythons, combined with the small bins they are usually kept in.
Ideally if Balls were kept in larger quarters 10 inch bottom heat tape, on a dimmer would be fine. But of course Balls don't really need huge quarters and it's quite common to use back wall heat for them, when those long Rubbermaids are used. I've seen breeders do both.
Corey uses bottom heat. Mark Mandic uses back heat. I used to use downspot heating cable weaved back and forth across a pair of copper pipes that were located under my plywood cage(in the 80's before heat tape and rack systems"
Downspout heater wire is really quite hard to deal with as is eves ice melter cable. I don't recommend either
Cutting out the thermostat and trying to reconnect to the ultra thin nichrome wire, is quite difficult. The stuff I had wouldn't solder, and it's very thin to use marettes on.
The really long eves ice defroster stuff, is one big series circuit so you can't cut it down because the wattage is the result of the entire length. Making it shorter greatly increases the current and wattage, and it will get hot as hell.
So if you don't cut it, that do you do with 30 or 40 feet. It's a problem
It also doesn't spread out the heat. It needs to be woven back and forth, as one section run in contact can actually melt rubbermaids,or at best produces a huge HOT SPOT. I might add that it also smells bad when it gets hot.

Go with Heat tape.. It's the best and well worth the money. It lasts forever. I just removed some from a rack that has been in continuous operation wihtout a dimmer since 1986. After wiping the dust and gecko crap off it, it looked exactly like it did the day it was installed.
I'm reusing it now on a new rack.
I agree with the others about not cheaping out.
when you have stacked Rubbermaids, the one on the bottom ends up not being serviced. I Know, I've been there just like Jeff.. In the old days we used to stack waiters buss pans, with glass sheets across them for lids. This was very popular in the 80's.
Unfortunately the poor snakes on the bottom ended up with no water, no food, and worse.
When you are in a hurry, even know you don't mean it, the bottom bin, just wont get enough attention.
The whole beauty of racks, is having ""THE WORKS IN A DRAWER"

Jeff_Favelle · 02-14-04, 08:38 PM

Ha ha, totally Roy!

Quote:

Jeff, doesn't that just mean you have all your balls pressed up agianst the back of the rubbermaids?

Not really. All the adult females are actually coiled around the water dishes (cold end) now in preparation for ovulation, but the actual heat tape is set to 105F, making the back wall of the Rubbermaid (the Rubbermaids are tapered/angled, so the back doesn't fit flush with the heat tape) 97F, making the whole area in the back (about 10 x 16 inches) around 90-92F, with the rest of the cage gradually getting cooler until about 80-82F at the front.

In my setup, this couldn't BE any more perfect. For sure.

Temp-gunned this female at 91F, and she is a full 2 inches from the back wall:

mykee · 02-14-04, 10:11 PM

Interested, though I will stick with the belly heat. I'm not going to re-hash the whole "as nature intended" theory because I honestly couldn't handle another, but glad to hear that the back heat thing works from someone who obviously is long enough in the tooth to have tried it all.