Egg retention in older chams

Wuntu Menny · 01-08-04, 04:33 PM

My old veiled has had this problem for the past year. Every time she drops a clutch she retains a few eggs and I find them scattered through her cage over the next week or two. She laid a couple of weeks ago and the same thing has happened. I'm looking at her now and can see another egg just ahead of her pelvis waiting to be expelled.

Has anyone else experienced this? She is allowed adequate time for deposition and normally isn't removed from the nest bucket until she completes her backfilling. For this reason I'm quite sure that she feels her job is complete and she's not getting moved prematurely.

I don't remember if I've posed the Q here before, but I'm unable to search the forum and find out at the moment.

WM

choriona · 01-08-04, 06:07 PM

Never heard this before. But you have to admit, it is good that they are coming out. I wonder if her thyroid and hypothalamus is getting old causing varied response times to hormones. Maybe she uses up the amount of homone that usually comes in a rush to cause the birthing response, and then has a second surge later on? Or the mechanism that "pushes" the eggs towards the exit may be run down and malfunctioning. Does she move food through her GI tract in the usual amount of time, or have you noticed a reduction in this as well?

Wuntu Menny · 01-08-04, 06:56 PM

NOOoo, not at all. If anything, her rate of intake and processing has increased with age. I'm convinced that she would eat all day every day if I let her (and defecate between mouthfuls of crix).

The remaining eggs are seemingly dropped at random. There is no correlation with fecal deposits and they appear in different areas on top of the substrate.

WM

choriona · 01-09-04, 12:14 AM

Wow, I'm stumped. I was just assuming that the mechanisms behind smooth muscle contractions in the GI tract causing food to make its way to the end would be controled the same as the decent of the eggs. Then that might make sense, where the eggs that are the furthest up in her body cavity may not recieve the final push until she becomes more mobile. You know, how sometimes ummm moving around helps you to ummm pass gas.

But then again, the movements she makes while hiding her buried treasure should be more than sufficient??
Unless, hormones are also involved. She may have a latency period where the urge to lay eggs is lost during the time she is overcome with the urge to bury them. Do you ever catch her in the act of dropping an egg in the cage? Is she standing on the sticks, or on the ground? (meaning is it a surprise for her, or is it completely under her own control?)
I dunno. Just a guess. I don't think there is a stardardized blood panal for chameleons to look at levels of hormones.

Wuntu Menny · 01-09-04, 08:04 PM

I'm leaning toward the theory of them not being pushed during the actual nesting and working their way down. I agree that the contortions they go through during the process should be sufficient.

Nope, I've never caught her dropping the stragglers, I only find them after, like the one I just foung today. Judging by the impact divots, she's dropping them from above and not going to ground. Whether that means its deliberate or accidental I don't know. Maybe its just a little incontinance. You know, your 90 years old walking down the street and things can just fall out of your azz for no apparent reason!

I think its just going to be speculation for now as she seems to be the only one I've heard of that does this.

WM

DNA Reptiles · 01-18-04, 09:58 PM

Just caught up on the above posts. Yes, I have a veiled chameleon that does just this same thing. I have no idea why - there seems to be no serious consequences. She will be 4 years old sometime during the summer coming and has not bred for about a year.
For now, another unanswered question!