Pics of brb setups wanted :)

[Tim_Cranwill]

"<i>Neither you nor anyone else on this board has been able to come up with any scientific proof or anything beyond a bunch of B.S. trendy myth herping that lights are bad.</i>"

Invictus, until you have some "proof" of your own that they AREN'T, (and it better be backed by scientific studies) quit your whiny "I love lights parade". In my opinion, a person with a fairly questionable brb set up is giving advice to someone new to brb's. I don't think the wyz is keeping his snakes is the worst possible way but I do feel that people new to brb's reading this post might think that copying his set up is ideal.

And man, don't even try to tell me what I was assuming in my post. I never once mentioned RI or that he couldn't keep humidity up in that set up. I said "<i>And you say you have to spray morning noon and night and have two humid hides.... wonder why????</i>"

You're always asking for scientific proof of everything. Well, step up and do some studies then. Until that time, I put my faith in people who have kept and bred said animals year after year over "B.S. trendy myth herping" dudes who seem to want to force their herp keeping fantasies on their animals.

Later...

[Tim_Cranwill]

Good post wyz.

I never thought you would intentionally neglecting your snakes but it wasn't a set up that I would recommend to a newbie and I saw you getting a lot of praise for it. I'm not the type of person to say there is only one way of doing something and it it's working for you, do it 'til it doesn't, I guess... not the way I would do it though...

I'm more worried about every average joe keeping brb's in screen top aquariums. YOU may have the dedication to spray 3 times a day but most people wouldn't... see where I'm going here? Our neglect = their suffering. When keeping pets, it's my opinion that our needs have to be secondary to theirs or we shouldn't keep them. If you can accomplish both, good on you.

[ChristinaM]

Wow, guys....thanks, this has turned into a very informative thread. Especially for me being a new BRB owner.

I fully intend on housing my girl in a glass showy type tank. BUT!!!! not untill I master the humidity. For now, she is in rubbermaid, and I'm getting the hang of her, her needs, etc. I read everything I can, and value EVERYONE's input. WYZ gave me definate idea's on how to keep the humidity up when I do move onto the challenge of glass.

I didn't buy this GORGEOUS animal, to have her hidden But till I have the know how, she will be just because it's simple, and easy to do for a beginner.

Thanks very much everyone.

[wyz]

Chris,

just don't expect to see your BRB that much

I NEVER see them in the day. I see them cruise around and soak after feeding or when I get up at night to take pictures of our herps, etc...

If you setup your enclosure in order to see your BRBs during the day, then it probably means it not setup right because they like private hides.

But if you know what you're getting into when setting up an esthetic enclosure, go for it.. I think this post with all the different replys does cover alot of "pros" and "cons".

WYZ

[ohh_kristina]

Also, not to knock glass enclosures, but you can have a really nice custom made wooden or plastic enclosure for BRBs that are great for display, too. Glass gets a lot of water spots with high humidity, that's something to keep in mind. Not to mention it's hard to get the humidity right in a tank, anyway.
I agree with wyz, though. My BRB stays hidden 85% of the time. She comes running when the smell of rat is in the air, though!

[Invictus]

Tim - You want scientific proof? Simple - as I said in my post, heat and humidity in the wild is caused by a really fricken big overhead light. End of story.

And I also place my faith in people who have successfully kept all kinds of humidity lovers in terrariums with lights. Not every big breeder in the world posts here. I know many breeders who keep BRBs in completely dry conditions with a humid hide, and overhead lights for heat, and you know what? They're in perfect health. There's your proof.

HEAT + WATER SOURCE = EVAPORATION = HUMIDITY

Ever wondered why the coastal areas of Australia are around 90 - 100% humidity, and the inland regions are bone dry? See equation above. Ever wonder why Alberta, a landlocked province, is considered sub-arid, yet Vancouver has more humidity than Brazil? See equation above.

Nature makes the rules, Tim, not you, and not any reptile breeder who thinks that rubbermaids with 100% humidity is the ONLY way to keep these amazing snakes.

So why don't the big breeders who keep their BRBs in bone dry conditions with humid hides post here? They're fed up with this stupid-a$$ debate too.

[maiden_canada]

invictus i don't know if that is proof or not, i live in victoria, a block from the water and its so frickin dry here. not a day goes by from september to may where i don't wear chapstick. if i put a humidiguage outside it would say like 10-20%

[Invictus]

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/wea...s/CABC0313.htm

According to this link, you have clear skies and 93% humidity right now (as of the time of this post). I'd find it very hard to believe that Victoria is all that dry if you have 93% under relatively clear conditions.

This link:

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/wea...6.htm?CABC0313

Shows the statistics. Victoria's AVERAGE humidity is in the 70s and 80s all year.

[maiden_canada]

explain to me why the humidity gauge says 23 plz

[Tim_Cranwill]

Well Invictus, we could debate this until the sun goes down (then where ya gonna get your precious humidity?!? ) but regardless, my point was more about the advice being given to the "less experienced" keepers. That type of set up can work and I'm sure it does fine for many breeders/keepers but there is a lot more room for errors. I also don't really see the point of making all of this humidity when it's just going to escape out through the screen top (+ screen side in this case). Why not contain the humidity? Why create more work than needed? I guess the attractive looking is that important to some people. For me, I'd rather not have to mist 3 times a day....

Oh, the sun's down... time out.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ken o ken o ken.........Where to begin my man?

First thing, let me have what you're smoking before you wrote that post bud!!! LOL!

Here we go:

1)

You want scientific proof? Simple - as I said in my post, heat and humidity in the wild is caused by a really fricken big overhead light. End of story.

Yes fine. The sun heats the planet. Doesn't mean a thing. Just because the sun heats the planet, does not mean every single tropical animal meets its heat needs from basking in all its glory! LOL! Far from it my friend. Take a trip to S. America (or even Central America) and tell me what the ambient is when you get back. Not some silly weather network statistic, but that ACTUAL ambient in the jungle. I'll tell you, I've been there, looking for snakes. Its STIFLING! No joke. Like 90F EASILY. In the shade. Actually, its ALL shade. The sun doesn't get through the canopy man. And believe me, Rainbows aren't sitting on top of the canopy with the macaws and spider monkeys. Nope. They spend their time seeking the coolest temperatures in the rainforest!! THAT"S THEIR NICHE!! That's what separates them from other boids in their range! This has allowed them to be successful. When they need to thermoregulate (after a big meal), they do NOT go and bask in the sun (well, not entirely). They just seek a LESS cooler place than their usual rotten log or pile of leaf-goop. Just the way it is man. I know you love your lights, but they just suck for Rainbows.

2)

know many breeders who keep BRBs in completely dry conditions with a humid hide, and overhead lights for heat, and you know what? They're in perfect health. There's your proof.

Actually, that's not proof at all. You have provided ZERO names, no photographic proof, nor any baby animals to show us. Not to mention this has all been accomplished (maybe) by someone OTHER than YOU!!! This is exactly the heresay that you've been complaining about!!! I just about fell over with a busted gut when I read that one bro!

Success, as I define it, means that you have had babies from parent stock, rasied those babies to adulthood and have babies themselves, and THEN take that generation and have babies AGAIN. THAT'S success to me. Not having a litter of Rainbows. Any brain-dead monkey can do that. Seriously. Success is repeated events over at LEAST a few generations. That's what defines the real breeders from the wannabes in my opinion.

3)

So why don't the big breeders who keep their BRBs in bone dry conditions with humid hides post here?

Ineed. Why don't they post here? I mean, not even ONE? That's strange. And has this really been debated before by other BREEDERS? Not since I've been here (Day 1). Wonder why these other dry-advocating "breeders" are fed up with an arguement that has never taken place? Weird.

4)

According to this link, you have clear skies and 93% humidity right now (as of the time of this post). I'd find it very hard to believe that Victoria is all that dry if you have 93% under relatively clear conditions.

You're not serious are you man?? 93% RELATIVE HUMIDITY. Yes. Do you know what that means? It means that the air is 7% away from saturation AT THE CURRENT TEMPERATURE! That temperature is 5 DEGREES CELSIUS man!! Cold air can't hold as much water vapour as warm air, so the RH climbs higher when its cool. Warm that air up to even room temperature (20 C) and the RH drops to like 30%!! Who cares what the RH is outside when its 5 C?? It doesn't matter. Now, 93% in the SUMMER, that's important. Then the humidex comes into effect as well. But trust me when I say that 93% RH at 5 C is DRY AIR!!! No question. My lips have to have chapstick ALL winter long. My house gets constant air exchange with the outside world so when its gets 93% RH air @ 5C, its really getting like 25% RH air @ 20C. Tell me that is humid air and I'll laugh so hard the Rockies will shake!!!

[Weather1]

According to this link, you have clear skies and 93% humidity right now (as of the time of this post). I'd find it very hard to believe that Victoria is all that dry if you have 93% under relatively clear conditions.

"Relative Humidity--Definition. Relative Humidity is the ratio of water vapour in the air compared to how much water vapour the air could hold at that temperature. Relative Humidity changes when the temperature changes or the amount of water vapour in the air changes. ref.Descriptive Meteorology

That being said... 93% RH at 15 Degrees Celsius is holding less water then 93% RH at 30 Degrees Celsius.

So what you want to measure is Absolute Humidity. It is the measure of the amount of water wapour in the air with no reference to temperature. It only changes when the amount of water vapour in the air changes.

[Weather1]

I say that 93% RH at 5 C is DRY AIR!!! No question

VERY TRUE Jeff..

Currently here in Trenton it is -8.5 Degree C with 85% RH I dare you to tell me that it is humid out. (I know these figures are true because that is my job to figure out.)

[Jeff_Favelle]

(I know these figures are true because that is my job to figure out.)

Ha ha, your nickname makes sense now!!!

Weather kicks a$$. One of my friend's dad is a climatologist, and my geography prof at UBC was a world-renowned meterologist. I love that stuff. I was never good at it, but it still fascinated me.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Yes fine. The sun heats the planet. Doesn't mean a thing. Just because the sun heats the planet, does not mean every single tropical animal meets its heat needs from basking in all its glory! LOL! Far from it my friend.

It also doesn't mean that using an overhead light is a detriment to the snake's health, does it? NO.

I'll tell you, I've been there, looking for snakes. Its STIFLING! No joke. Like 90F EASILY. In the shade. Actually, its ALL shade. The sun doesn't get through the canopy man.

You're absolutely right. The canopy does create a rather efficient barrier that keeps the moisture in. Now let me ask you this - Where did the humidity come from? This is the last time I'll say this - from the sun warming the ocean. Thus, keeping a BRB in a terrarium with restricted air flow (simulating a canopy) with an overhead light (simulating the sun) over a large water source (simulating the ocean) is about as natural as captivity gets, Jeff. You cannot reproduce the rainforest any better than that. Period.

As I said the last time we had this stupid a$$ debate (in which you were still unsuccessful in coming with a single valid and proveable reason why overhead lights are detrimental to a snake's health), I have already done the experimentation, and have proven the results. I had a glass tank with a screen lid, and a light source over a water source. The ambient humidity was clocked at well over 80% WITHOUT MISTING. And for the record, my house has less than 20% humidity.

And believe me, Rainbows aren't sitting on top of the canopy with the macaws and spider monkeys. Nope. They spend their time seeking the coolest temperatures in the rainforest!! THAT"S THEIR NICHE!! That's what separates them from other boids in their range! This has allowed them to be successful. When they need to thermoregulate (after a big meal), they do NOT go and bask in the sun (well, not entirely).

Thanks for the lesson, Dr. Favelle. I'm not debating that with you. I'm debating the ways in which ambient humidity is created in a captive environment. Way to dodge the topic.

Actually, that's not proof at all. You have provided ZERO names, no photographic proof, nor any baby animals to show us.

LOL!!! Riiiight. Like any herp keepers or breeders want their names mentioned in a thread like this, just so they can have their credibility destroyed by people like you who are convinced that your way is the ONLY way. Sorry Jeff. The breeders in question have specifically requested that I not mention their names on this forum. Many of them do read this forum, some post occasionally. None of them want to be picked apart by elitists who love to dismiss peoples' credibility just because they do something that is against the trendy, popular opinion.

Not to mention this has all been accomplished (maybe) by someone OTHER than YOU!!! This is exactly the heresay that you've been complaining about!!! I just about fell over with a busted gut when I read that one bro!

Whether it was done BY me, or simply shown TO me is absolutely irrelevant, and I have to say, a completely petty and inane argument, Jeff. You're a smart man, you can do better than this.

Success, as I define it, means that you have had babies from parent stock, rasied those babies to adulthood and have babies themselves, and THEN take that generation and have babies AGAIN. THAT'S success to me. Not having a litter of Rainbows. Any brain-dead monkey can do that. Seriously. Success is repeated events over at LEAST a few generations. That's what defines the real breeders from the wannabes in my opinion.

Ooooooo, from myth right into herp keeper elitism!!! This thread has it all, kids! Dr. Favelle (you do have a PhD in herpetology, right?) has decided that you must repeat success over several generations in order for your practices to have any validity whatsoever!

THIS, my friend, is why the big breeders don't get into these debates. Because there's always someone who has a good reputation and blinders on - the two lead to pompous elitism, and reputations being DESTROYED, simply because someone goes against the norm. This is not unlike high school. Someone goes against the norm, and they get persecuted, even though their ideas DO WORK.

FOR THE RECORD - I never once criticised your husbandry, Jeff. I know that you have a way of doing things, and it has worked very well for you. But you have no right to criticize other peoples' practises which do work, just because you don't practise the same techniques yourself. I believe you when you say that rubbermaids are the way to go. But they are not the ONLY way to go. I believe you when you say that a heat source is best created with heat tape. But it's not the ONLY way to do it. I believe I showed with my statement above that an overhead light is as close to real conditions as any snake is ever going to get. And though I don't own any BRBs, I'm not debating BRB husbandry. I do use overhead lights in a few of my enclosures for humidity loving species, and have had great success maintaining humidity, and the only effort it takes is refilling a water dish every few days.

Indeed. Why don't they post here? I mean, not even ONE? That's strange. And has this really been debated before by other BREEDERS? Not since I've been here (Day 1). Wonder why these other dry-advocating "breeders" are fed up with an arguement that has never taken place? Weird.

I believe I've already clarified this. Not every breeder visits ssnakess or queensnake every day, Jeff. And I didn't get all of my information from those sources either. I don't see Clark or Graziani posting regularly in these forums. They are too busy providing some of the best herps on earth. This argument HAS taken place, but not on an Internet message board. I don't consider this place to be the be-all and end-all of herp husbandry. If you do, that's just plain sad.

I'm personally fed up with this debate too, especially since you always manage to turn it into a debate about BRB husbandry, instead of keeping it what it is - a debate about how wilderness conditions are simulated, and the different techniques by which people go about things. You're obviously convinced that your way is the one and only way to keep BRBs, and that's fine, Jeff. Believe what you will. I will continue to show people ways to keep a humidity-loving species that differs from your way. The difference is, I will NEVER tell you that your way is wrong.