Female Veiled forgot to wipe?

[Trace]

I'm a wee bit confused. At first you said it was bad news and you went on to say how it's normal for your chameleons.

Sorry! I should have made myself more clear. Sometimes my grasp of the English language leaves much to be desired. :/ The last thing I want to see you with is another sick chameleon, because you are doing everything right husbandry wise. I did want to point out that I've noticed that my chams do crawl into their sleeping spots when the sun goes down even though their lights are still on. I'm hoping this is what Clover is doing for you. I had a wee nap this afternoon so I'll be up all night unfortunately and thus sleep in tomorrow. Chameleons aren't like that, unless, I suppose, they are in a completely dark room.

It's been my experience, that chameleons will sleep during the day if they've got some kind of health problem. I know that's something you don't want to hear, but it's generally true. Her colours seem good too me, what you want to worry about is dull, pale colours. The temps are good, she's eating on her own. I know your UV bulb is new so that's ok.

Try the shower trick tomorrow. Sometimes it's a little stressful or scary on them the first time. Like they won't drink and just try to escape the shower. I would try a syringe or water bottle with her first. You don't have to force the water in, but hold her and drip water along her mouth and see if she readily drinks that way. Sometimes it does take a few minutes of dripping before they will drink. You will get wet!

Keep us posted please!

Trace

[J-Man]

I remember watering Duke like that. It was very effective... I mean while he's drinking you can squirt some in while his mouth is open... extremely good hydration there. I'll try the syringe method first. Thanks.

J-man

[J-Man]

Horrible news:

This morning she has still been lathargic, and her eyes are still sunken. She's very sulky and slow. I decided to go with the more drastic approach and I put her in the shower. She seemed to be drinking... she laid her head on a leaf for a while. But I didn't see her actually drink because I tried not to bother her. After the shower she had brighter colors but her face was somewhat pale. I wouldn't have normally noticed it except I know to look out for it.

Also, it looks like she hasn't eaten yesterday or today. So I'm a little worried about that. Also, her vent is a different color from the rest of her body and it seems sort of infected.

I'm thinking about moving onto the Bug Juice phase.

I've already called a couple vets and they said either they don't do chams or they don't do exotics. So I'm gonna keep calling.

This is all VERY upsetting to me. As some of you might know I had problems with my last veiled (Duke, male) and had to give him away to a more experienced keepr. I would hate to fail Clover too and have to give her up.

[Trace]

Oh Jeremy...

Honestly you've got me crying right now. Yes I'm a suck, yes I don't know her. After all the troubles you had with Duke, I so much wanted this little girl to work out for you. You've put so much effort into learning about the species before you got into them that you deserve a healthy chameleon.

My thoughts are with you and her. I hope you can find a decent vet that will take care of Clover. If humans can only invent teleporters I'd get her up here and rush her off to my vet.

Good luck!

Trace

[J-Man]

Thanks a lot. That does help a lot. I honestly don't know what I could have done differently. But hopefully a vet will be able to help.

[J-Man]

Well... let me just say that I didn't know it was possible for a living creature to get so bad so fast. Has anybody seen Cabin Fever? It's basically as fast as that. 2 days ago she seemed fine (except for the feces problem) now she's horrible. Hardly moving, eyes closed, pale colors, and somehow she's skinnier! I don't get it. I fed her Bug Juice tonight and she spit up about 1/20th the amount I gave her. Honestly, and I hate to say this, but I don't think she's going to make it through the night. I have a vet appointment tomorrow at 4:15 so hopefully she'll make it.

[Trace]

Jeremy...

Chameleons (and other reptiles) are VERY good at hiding their symptoms until it's almost too late. It is surprising at how quickly they can go downhill eh? As much as I try here, I have lost a few chameleons along the way too. I maintain proper husbandry, give them everything they would ever want, but sometimes it just doesn't work out. And it never gets any easier when you lose one.

Again my thoughts are with you and little Clover. I hope she's got the strength to make it through until tomorrow.

Trace

[J-Man]

Well. I'm sorry to report that little Clover passed away tonight. I think I'm a little turned off of chameleons for now. I don't know if it's my luck with them, or if it's my fault or what. Maybe it's just my house? I dunno. But I think it's best for me to wait a bit before I try again. IF I do get another herp I think it would be something easier to take care of... like an Iguana.

Trace, thank you so much for ALL of your help... not just with Clover but also with Duke... and chameleons in general. It has really meant a lot to me.

Anyway, I'm taking this a little hard so I'm just gonna go to bed. Thanks again to all who helped me.

[katev17]

Jeremy I'm SO sorry to hear what happened! I only just read the whole thread, and wow she really must have been good at hiding it for that to happen so fast... Don't blame yourself, though, you really did seem to be doing everything right! I know it's hard to lose them (my first one didn't last 3 weeks, as he was only a week old or so) ... It's SO hard to tell if something's wrong with them. I couldn't notice anything wrong with mine until I woke up and he'd passed away over night. How old was Clover? Again I'm so sorry to hear that, and I hope you don't give up.

Feel better!!
Kate

[Trace]

I don't know what to say Jeremy, beyond I'm really sorry to hear what happened.

Here's a little story for you. Maybe you remember "Red", my female Panther that laid 29 eggs last week? She laid them overnight and by lunchtime she had finished repacking her hole. I did all my standard after-care practices like I do with my females and she was doing fine. She was back in her cage basking, drinking, colours looked good all that crap. She wasn't eating though, but that to me isn't a great concern right away. I think if I laid 29 eggs relative to my size, I'd be a bit lazy for the rest of the day myself! LOL! The next day I offered her some nice calcium dusted bugs and still didn't want to eat and at this point I figured she needed some nutrition to help regain her strength, so I whipped up some EmerAid powder and force fed her. I thought I would watch her for the day and if she didn't eat I'd take her to my vet the next day. Well she didn't make it through the night. What's up with that? I did a necropsy and didn't see anything wrong on the inside. No retained eggs, no tumours, nothing.

Over the last year or two there was been a sudden surge in popularity in chameleons. Everyone has got one, and that's ok. Some species are more tolerant of captive conditions than others. Some species are more tolerant of husbandry mistakes than others. It's these species that breed with relative ease in captivity, and 1000's and 1000's of them are being produced every year. Now I'm not pointing fingers at the people who are breeding because there are some good, caring breeders out there. A lot of these Veiled's are inbred now, thus causing health problems from the start. A lot are being sold too young because it is too expensive to rear a clutch of 30 babies to an age where they aren't as delicate for a novice keeper. Kate you found this out the hard way unfortunately. I think J-man is in the same situation.

Jeremy, I know my stories/rants are not going to make you feel any better. I can understand if you want to give chameleons a break for a while though, but don't give up completely. You are too dedicated and too knowledgeable about them.

My deepest condolences.

Trace

[drewlowe]

I'm so sorry for your loss J-man. I know it's hard to go through most of us has been there but don't give up.

[J-Man]

Thanks to everybody. Believe it or not it does make me feel better. That's really odd about Red, Trace. I haven't given up completely, just for a little while. But yeah, I'm thinking if I get another herp, it would be an iguana. I'm going to wait though just so I know it's not going to turn out to be a re-bound herp. Thanks again, everybody.

[J-Man]

Kate, she was about 3 months old.

[choriona]

gosh J-man, I am sorry to hear that Clover passed away. You just had a run of bad luck, I'm sure it has nothing to do with your husbandry.
I am shocked to learn she was only 3 onths old.....and you've had her for at least a month now. I just want to re-iterate what Trace was getting at about selling chameleons too young. They are very fragile when they are young. They simply die of mysterious causes. Not every hatchling is ment to make it...and those that wont usually die within the first 3 months. If you ever do decide to get another chameleon, I reccommend getting one that is older than 3 months.
And it was nice meeting you here, talking about chameleons. You are one of the people I would love to send my hatchlings off to. You tried real hard to understand the species and provide for it accordingly. I'm sure you'll do great with any animals you decide to get in the future. And please don't forget about chameleons...still come and chat with us here, and share what you have learned with everyone else!

[J-Man]

I will certainly stay here and discuss chams along with other herps on this site. Not just to share my relatively small amount of knowledge, but also to learn more.